Group C Appreciation Society

Pilgrimage · 24 Aug 2007, 10:53 (Ref:1995722)

I came accross this gallery link today and simply couldn't help sharing:-

http://www.supercars.net/gallery/119513/1476/1.html

Some great memories and some awesome machines.

**Aysedasi** · 24 Aug 2007, 13:04 (Ref:1995819)

Wonderful - thanks for that!

The Badger · 24 Aug 2007, 17:58 (Ref:1995955)

Nice one Pilg ..... cant wait for the Group C race at Le Mans next year ..... yhis is a nice taster indeed .

**FIRE** · 24 Aug 2007, 18:03 (Ref:1995958)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilgrimage

I came accross this gallery link today and simply couldn't help sharing:-

http://www.supercars.net/gallery/119513/1476/1.html

Some great memories and some awesome machines.

Great cars.

Shotteh · 24 Aug 2007, 18:08 (Ref:1995961)

We really are truly lucky that so many of these fabulous group C cars have been maintained to such a high standard. I really wish I was a bit older so I could have truly experienced these years.

**FIRE** · 24 Aug 2007, 18:24 (Ref:1995974)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shotteh

We really are truly lucky that so many of these fabulous group C cars have been maintained to such a high standard. I really wish I was a bit older so I could have truly experienced these years.

Yep

Last week I read the book Porsche 956/962 by Peter Morgan and I got the impression that despite there were 7 or 8 Porsches in the top 10 the racing was great. Private teams (or better: private in name, they had professional drivers and backing from major companies) were able to win against the Porsche factory team. It's a shame Group C was screwed by FIA.

The359 · 24 Aug 2007, 23:21 (Ref:1996084)

Apparently every XJR-9/12 was together for the first time at that event.

The Badger · 25 Aug 2007, 08:46 (Ref:1996199)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The359

Apparently every XJR-9/12 was together for the first time at that event.

Now , that would have been something to hear when they all zip past at the same time .

GT6 · 25 Aug 2007, 15:49 (Ref:1996330)

Such a pity that so many of the great Group C cars are left to waste in factory museums rather that do what they were built for. RACE!

Marcel ten Caat · 25 Aug 2007, 18:39 (Ref:1996413)

For the Dutchies and Belgians that are interested in Group C / GTP. They will be at Spa 13/14 October...

http://www.race-rally.be/2007/rf2007/default.htm will have more info later

The Badger · 25 Aug 2007, 20:00 (Ref:1996440)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT6

Such a pity that so many of the great Group C cars are left to waste in factory museums rather that do what they were built for. RACE!

On the other hand GT6 ..... its great to see so many of the most beuatiful and magic sounding Group C machines still alive and kicking .

From what ive seen , some of them are more beuatifully engineered than they were originally .

Bring back the open engine fuel formula please !!!

Alex Hodgkinson · 25 Aug 2007, 20:04 (Ref:1996442)

Somebody I know of has this year bought two (yes, two!) Nissan NPT-90's. As I understand it one of them is good-to-go and the second is going through a total rebuild.

His first car is a "series two" chassis (ie.1991+) whereas the second is one which was built out of bits once NPTI had disbanded.

Great stuff eh

Purist · 25 Aug 2007, 21:08 (Ref:1996456)

By 1987 at least, the drivers hated the engine/fuel formula. Derek Bell and Hans Stuck I know have said as much.

The359 · 25 Aug 2007, 23:27 (Ref:1996519)

Here's a nice picture of almost all of the XJRs together

JAG · 26 Aug 2007, 15:56 (Ref:1996887)

This get together is covered on the latest Group C show on Motors TV.

The guy from JD Classics owns 3 XJR-11's, an XJR-10 and an XJR-9!

Graz · 26 Aug 2007, 20:58 (Ref:1997036)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purist

By 1987 at least, the drivers hated the engine/fuel formula. Derek Bell and Hans Stuck I know have said as much.

Yes, that ruined group C a bit. The cars were magic though.

minimangler · 26 Aug 2007, 22:07 (Ref:1997102)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graz

Yes, that ruined group C a bit. The cars were magic though.

So the idea that spawned the great cars also ruined them?

That makes so much sense...

Purist · 26 Aug 2007, 22:14 (Ref:1997109)

I think the issue was the performance of the cars picked up to the point that races became more and more economy runs. There was steadily less and less flexibility to run flat-out and push for positions, at least for the Porsche 962s and their contemporaries (cars that came before the Jaguar XJR-8 and Sauber-Mercedes C8).

Alex Hodgkinson · 26 Aug 2007, 22:19 (Ref:1997112)

Hence IMSA GTP racing was a better way of running things. Similar regulations to Grp C rules, but with no fuel regulations and shorter races. Derek Bell and many of the other Group C racers went to race stateside once they grasped it's advantages.

Graz · 26 Aug 2007, 22:56 (Ref:1997143)

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimangler

So the idea that spawned the great cars also ruined them?

That makes so much sense...

Sorry I offended you!! Why limit them to fuel amounts? Let then loose. Were they or were they not great cars??

Nordic · 27 Aug 2007, 06:39 (Ref:1997231)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Hodgkinson

Hence IMSA GTP racing was a better way of running things. Similar regulations to Grp C rules, but with no fuel regulations and shorter races. Derek Bell and many of the other Group C racers went to race stateside once they grasped it's advantages.

I think being paid to race stateside helped as well!

The German DRM also was running at the same time without the fuel restrictions and shorter races than the world series.

The reasons pehind the fuel formula where complex, but the basic stand point was that it encouraged the development of fuel effecient engines.

DavidD · 30 Aug 2007, 11:50 (Ref:1999987)

The Group C cars will be racing at Donington Sept 15 and 16. Also if you want to keep up to date with what is happening there is a new web site www.groupcracing.com. We are trying to build up the web site so if any of you have aany pictures from the current meetings please let me know and I can arrange to have them displayed on the site

johngee · 30 Aug 2007, 12:11 (Ref:1999999)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graz

Were they or were they not great cars??

Yes - they were some of the greatest and most beautiful cars in motor racing history.

autoavia · 1 Sep 2007, 16:04 (Ref:2001353)

I was fortunate enough to go to Le Mans every year from 1983 to 1990 - the heyday of Group C. The great thing about the formula was that it allowed the privateer teams to compete on fairly level terms with the works cars. Sure a lot of people bought Porsche 956/962's because they were the weapon of choice for any reasonably well financed privateer but there was still a lot of variety in the grids particularly at Le Mans. Maybe the fuel formula could have been adjusted in the later years but no formula is ever absolutely perfect and certainly for me the Group C era was one of the great periods in the history of sportscar racing.

**Bentley03** · 1 Sep 2007, 17:53 (Ref:2001379)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidD

The Group C cars will be racing at Donington Sept 15 and 16.

That's an unfortunate clash with the Le Mans Series race at Silverstone!

Just as an aside, wouldn't it be wonderful to have the Group C's supporting the Le Mans Series (in Europe, at least).

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