You think WE have safety car problems

[fomoco]

We all know about the V8 Safety Car "Entertainment Interceptor" but feel for the WTCC guys have it just as bad>
By Rob Veltman Sunday, 17 May 2009 23:43
WTCC: Safety car had no permission to exit pits The safety car that went out after the first lap of the second race at Pau today didn't have the permission from the race director to go out. The safety car crawled to the middle of the track while the race drivers crossed the finish line at full speed. The result was a crash between the safety car and the race leader, Franz Engtler.
CET

According to Dutch TV channel RTL the safety car driver never got the green light from the race director to get on the track, but was simply told to be on stand-by.

"The safety car should get ready and wait for the race director to give the green light to go out on track", an anonymous official was quoted by RTL.

"The driver didn't wait for the permission. What happened next we've all seen."

Engstler hit the Chevrolet Safety Car at a speed of 107 km/h.

[T-star]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfMkYK5ntU0

[PhaseIII]

VERY SAFE - SAFEty Car!!

[Pro Racer]

WOW, never complain about our guys not picking up the leader. that guy picked up the leader alright.

[NewsStalker]

I'm sure V8 Race Control have already been in touch with the SC driver to offer him a position over here...

[mark ch]

The WTCCC drivers ignored the yellows and SC boards, they were displayed.
Even if SC driver went without permission of RC the flags/Boards should have protected him

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by mark ch

the flags/Boards should have protected him

Flags & SC boards don't protect anybody - they merely inform!

[F J Nedos]

Mein Gott indeed...

[cptkablamo]

Yeah, and there was 9 qualifying penalties - I think wtcc has some issues...

[David Brand]

I don't get it, an official says the safety car was not told to head out, however there plainly are safety car boards out at the flag points?

The funny thing is the little Chev safety car seemed to sustain very little damage compared to the WTCC BMW...

[NewsStalker]

Why has it surprised anyone that just because the yellows and even possibly SC boards were out that the cars on the track hadn't slowed down? Happens all the time here and there have even been instances of lap records being set under these conditions! (Talk to Paul Morris and Brad Jones about that one!)

[fomoco]

Originally Posted by NewsStalker

Why has it surprised anyone that just because the yellows and even possibly SC boards were out that the cars on the track hadn't slowed down? Happens all the time here and there have even been instances of lap records being set under these conditions! (Talk to Paul Morris and Brad Jones about that one!)

the hairpin at indy is a great place to see drivers taken notice of flags and SC boards. twice I,ve been there, and no right foot lifting and left foot pushing.

[fomoco]

Originally Posted by mark ch

The WTCCC drivers ignored the yellows and SC boards, they were displayed.
Even if SC driver went without permission of RC the flags/Boards should have protected him

after watching vid, I would say the SC driver is lost, a blind turn, wrong position on the track, if he intended to head out , he should have floored it be a couple of hundred metres down the track, not at the point of colision.

but thats racing.

[DJJ]

Originally Posted by David Brand

The funny thing is the little Chev safety car seemed to sustain very little damage compared to the WTCC BMW...

OMG

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by mark ch

Even if SC driver went without permission of RC the flags/Boards should have protected him

Not when the SC driver crossed the track in front of a fast moving race car rounding a blind corner.

I have to say it's an interesting experience to be driving a SC and looking in the mirror at a bunch of F4000's ranging up behind at warp speed wondering if;

1. They have seen the SC boards & flags,
2. Noticed a bright orange monaro in front of them with me driving,
3. They are going to slow down without using me as a brake.

[Andy77]

Originally Posted by David Brand

I don't get it, an official says the safety car was not told to head out, however there plainly are safety car boards out at the flag points?

The funny thing is the little Chev safety car seemed to sustain very little damage compared to the WTCC BMW...

Both Engstler and Menu have slowed as soon as they got the safety car boards and yellows shown. Thats what both ecu-units have spit out in the investigation. Also the safety car driver was not allowed to leave from this spot. Quite a couple voices from the wtcc paddock stated also that if a safety car had to deploy it had to deploy at turn 3. [ecu-unit = black box]

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by David Brand

I don't get it, an official says the safety car was not told to head out, however there plainly are safety car boards out at the flag points?

Just because the flags are out is not a go signal to the SC Driver to enter the track.

[bazil]

Originally Posted by PVDA

Just because the flags are out is not a go signal to the SC Driver to enter the track.

Agreed and even if they were instructed to deploy or scramble what the hell was the maneuver he pulled coming onto the track?? Surely with the restricted view at pit exit normal procedure would be to stay on the tight side of the track and accelerate up to reasonable speed before trying to pick up the pack. Poor judgment and driving by the safety car caused the accident more than anything else I reckon.

[RotorFan]

Safety car should not have driven over to the left of the circuit anyway! I was watching this race last night, what a shock! Never seen anything like that before.

[F J Nedos]

As an example, when the yellow flags and yellow lights go on in Nascar, you watch how quickly the driver gets off the loud pedal. Perhaps this should be more strictly enforced?

[NewsStalker]

The problem trying to compare NASCAR and any other form of racing is that NASCAR are virtually on the go pedal 99% of the time and the consequences arfe - usually - more serious (in terms of driving into a crash rather than coming across one).

Also - the speed in NASCAR is significantly higher (sustained that is) that most other forms of motor sport.

The problem of enforcing this in FIA sanctioned events is that no one has the guts to enforce what the rules say - for example why should ANY car be allowed to race around the track, under SC conditions, in order to get on the back of the train? Or is it OK for one car at racing speed (which is what they attain) but not for the entire field. I guess PVDA's comments about this particular scenario would be welcome...

[PVDA]

It's the main thing I don't like about using the SC.

The bulk of the field is slowed down but it's open slather for those catching up to the train.

Having been trackside during SC periods and nearly hit by race cars passing me way too quickly it's not a lot of fun.

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by F J Nedos

As an example, when the yellow flags and yellow lights go on in Nascar, you watch how quickly the driver gets off the loud pedal.

Now they do but up til a few years ago they used to "Race to the Caution" as the restart positions where determined by the order the next time over the line rather than going back a lap, this meant at times the field was tearing through the incident at full race pace and this was preventing Safety Crews from responding until they slowed down or worse passing cars crashing into the stationary damaged cars.

Back in the early 90's NASCAR racing at the Thunderdome here in Melbourne actually stopped the "Racing to the Caution" and the visting US NASCAR officials were impressed by the spped at which the emergency crews could respond to incidents. It's just a shame it took so long for them to bring it in over there.

[Rachel Richards]

Originally Posted by PVDA

Back in the early 90's NASCAR racing at the Thunderdome here in Melbourne actually stopped the "Racing to the Caution" and the visting US NASCAR officials were impressed by the spped at which the emergency crews could respond to incidents. It's just a shame it took so long for them to bring it in over there.

PVDA, I seem to recall being told once they were also impressed with the in-car yellow light system too.



Back to the Safety Car.....

Don't think for a moment that there haven’t been near miss incidents in our fine country too. The occasion below saw the drivers being the ones at fault.



I clearly remember an incident in which the two lead cars (that were powered by V8 engines) were racing each other at full speed, ignoring the SC boards & flags, and just by sheer good luck, went one each side of the Safety Car at full clip (220 KPH+).

The Safety car had been dispatched from the pits onto a clear track, and was sitting mid track doing around 40 - 50 waiting to pick up the leaders.

Now without saying too much; IIRC, the safety car driver may have, just may have, had a quiet word to the two competitors in question (after they fronted the Stewards).

And again, just maybe, a quiet word from a man of large physical stature may have been enough to assist them in seeing the error of their ways.

How did he mange this some may ask ?

Well he had the privilege of chauffeuring them (in the aforementioned Safety Car) out to spend a session on a flag point, which was part of the novel punishment suggested, I believe by a lateral thinking Clerk of Course.


So much more reasonable and longer lasting than simply directing them to write a fat cheque, as seems to be the norm.

[NewsStalker]

In car lights would also have been used in CAMS events if it wasn't for the bloody-mindedness of one Msrs Schenken amd Bready (sp?) who disliked all things emanating from Calder Park. With the light no one can say they 'didn't see them'.

The technology is already available, it is cheap and functional - but then of course, safety isn;t the first thing CAMS/V8SCA consider when deciding what to implement in racing these days.