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Old 1 Oct 2014, 09:19 (Ref:3459127)   #251
Ephaeton
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Ephaeton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEphaeton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEphaeton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEphaeton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
You're right, Simmi, about contesting the existence of a car. I was more referring to: Here's my
take/progress on blueprints for an LMP1, let's build and race it! vs. Here's my name, let's go racing
with something we maybe build or buy! "Marketing" places the "brand" (smoke) obviously above the
accessible engineering content.

About 'it might have been at the request of Brabham': Perrinn said (see above) he wasn't aware
of the Brabham Project. It's very, very, very hard to believe that the other way round. So that
would imply that Brabham did prefer not to have a connection to the Perrinn project. Begging the
question of the "why". As to not dilute the "brand"? A Question I would have loved being asked
and answered.

The 10pm internet radio is one thing, other sites like e.g. racer doing the same thing is another.
Still it won't make or break anything, but the circle of specialized journalists in the area isn't huge,
and if seemingly a couple of them have similar tastes/preferences and write accordingly, IMHO
they will make an impact, being the professional "multiplicators" they are. I'm neither a PR guy
nor an oceanologist, but ISTM for a tsunami to happen, some unnoticed underground earthquake
has to appear, building momentum to ultimately come up with waves that are hard to ignore. So
if you can control the centre of the quake, you might just be able to shape the waves. If RLM had
asked the question, racer might have had to, Perrinn might have gotten more exposure, the
exclusivity of the announcement dilluted, whatever. Again, I'm not a marketing guy. But Brabham
chose RLM to be #1 for a reason. And that reason is not because it's an internet radio show that
people ignore...

Again, I've supported both projects because ultimately I'd love to see them both. I love Perrinn's
response, but frankly, how else could he respond. I'm disappointed/confused in Brabham not seeing the
bigger opportunity in going to Perrinn than going solo. I'm not a marketing guy though. They might
understand.
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Old 2 Oct 2014, 11:14 (Ref:3459481)   #252
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Great post Ephaeton.

There's now an opportunity to ask question of not approaching Perrinn from Brabs himself
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2014/1...rabham-qa.html

Well assuming DSC allows 'tough' questions through their filters... if the specialist media is too afraid to ask these (and picks up preferences on who to support), someone must

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Old 2 Oct 2014, 11:30 (Ref:3459484)   #253
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Ephaeton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEphaeton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEphaeton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEphaeton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
thanks for the pointer, Chiana.
I indeed sent a message to GG of DSC, and we'll see where that leads.

Btw, the most "rational" explanation (to me, in my mind, not objectively for someone with absolute knowledge) for Brabham not approaching Perrinn is that IMHO Brabham thinks Perrinn's project is a walking dead and the less publicly he has to state such, the better (because he's a nice guy). And now he'll have to, heh ...
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Old 2 Oct 2014, 12:38 (Ref:3459500)   #254
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If you're trying to generate buzz and goodwill around an idea then you wouldn't necessarily shine a light in the direction of something similar that hasn't worked.

I'd probably do the same to be honest.
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Old 2 Oct 2014, 13:35 (Ref:3459522)   #255
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Maybe Perrin signed up with PB as an engineer to 'monitor progress'?
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Old 2 Oct 2014, 14:02 (Ref:3459534)   #256
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Boys - just caught up with this thread and will respond to a number of points raised

I have spoken with Nicolas on a number of occasions about his project, have run a couple of stories about it and will likely do so again as and when there is progress to report.

On Brabham - The reality is that this is a significant move from a significant personality in the business with a very significant name. David has been a very significant part of the sportscar scene from the very start of DSC and its predecessors

It seems that a substantial number of people agree with that.

On another front - I was asked, as were RLM, to be involved with the launch announcement. I have spoken to David, and to his team, on several occasions since and that has been a consistent two way contact.

In contrast I have called Nicolas a number of times over the course of this year - I have never had a call from him. I don't hold that against him, but it does mean that in a very busy life he can fall off the radar at times.

I am prepping a piece on the issues of open source and crowd funding models of funding for future publication and am talking to a number of other people about them - these things take time.

I have also interviewed David, at some length, again for future publication, and can tell you that I did ask him the question about Perrinn - He was as classy as Nicolas was in the statement you have pasted below.

I will say that the use of words such as 'respamming' in relation to what DSC, and for that matter RLM have been doing with coverage is pretty insulting. Anything and everything I write is something that you can choose to read or not. Spam is something entirely different.

The question sent in btw is entirely acceptable - I don't intend to employ any 'filter' with this. The sentiment behind part of it though is hardly supportive of either project (evidenced by the post here today at 12:30 which is just plain unpleasant imho)

I'd ask the question in reverse - Why on earth should anyone make the assumption that Brabham should be involved with Perrinn. The fact that there are some similarities with some of the business models doesn't mean, in any way that it's a slap in the face to Nicolas that they aren't!

David wants to go to LMP2 - Nicolas is designing an LMP1

There are a number of current and emergent LMP2 projects out there that might be a much, much better fit.

In various ways the Perrinn and Brabham projects go back a fair way into the past. Both guys have their own ideas on how to progress - Nicolas needs funding to progress the project to production, David needs funding for, well more or less everything!

I'd ask a further question - Why, if you were in David's position, would you risk everything on co-operating with a project for a new and unproven product that would need a redesign on an as yet unbuilt design to meet your needs when there are other solutions available that have proven performance already in the marketplace?

Oh and btw - on the choice of RLM to launch it - They get a bigger and more interactive audience than anything else in the specialist motorsport marketplace, by a distance. You may have missed the little nugget a week or two back that they have had over 1.5 million downloads of podcasts this year. That's over and above those that listen live (literally millions more).

Please guys, do yourselves a favour and don't see conspiracy and underhand tactics everywhere - when the reality is that there are a lot of people working really, really hard to do as good a job as they/ we can to help you to enjoy your sport
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Old 2 Oct 2014, 15:38 (Ref:3459559)   #257
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Ephaeton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEphaeton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEphaeton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEphaeton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Thanks for your reply, Graham *draws hat*.

[ I did not intend for my 12:30 CET message to be "unpleasant", but there's not much I can do about that ]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin
I'd ask the question in reverse - Why on earth should anyone make the assumption that Brabham should be involved with Perrinn. The fact that there are some similarities with some of the business models doesn't mean, in any way that it's a slap in the face to Nicolas that they aren't!
As someone partially living in/from/and near the [software OSS, OSS-consulting, crowd-funding & similar] reservations, IMHO this very point is very much debatable.

My experiences, being from a different engineering field, may or may not apply to this specific field, etc., but I feel the same core mechanics of involvement, momentum, and willingness to pay for something that's "awesome" and a "must-have" apply across the field boundaries.
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Old 2 Oct 2014, 16:16 (Ref:3459571)   #258
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I must confess, following Graham's post - which I applaud - I'm not sure I understand a word of the last one.......

Edit -
I should add perhaps, that my post wasn't intended to criticise Ephaeton's views, just post #257, which I didn't follow....

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Old 8 Oct 2014, 13:24 (Ref:3462182)   #259
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Originally Posted by knighty View Post
7th October at Cranfield, anyone can attend, turn up and learn all about the Perrin LMP1 project from the man himself, see this link below from the Institute of Mechanical Engineers, to my knowledge you do not need to be a member to attend.

http://nearyou.imeche.org/eventdetai...q_v=8de2471490

.
Anyone went? I couldnt make it
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Old 8 Oct 2014, 14:34 (Ref:3462213)   #260
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Brab's answer on Perrinn from DSC:

Quote:
I’m sure you were aware of the existence of the Project of Nicolas Perrinn, to create an open-sourced LMP1 and actually race it in Le Mans. Some of the ideas are similar, especially with the focus on open sourcing content / allowing access to engineering content (your models differ slightly, but the spirit is very similar, IMHO), and making it a crowd effort. Why did you not try and approach Perrinn? Is this unwise for marketing? Do your ideas for revenue streams not align with the openness Perrinn wants to achieve? How is your offer (besides your name and the silverstone track day, awesome idea for a top-tier reward btw – kudos) “better” than Perrinn’s?

Thanks for the questions and your contribution, welcome to the Brabham Racing team. We have been working on Project Brabham for some considerable time and when Perrinn announced their programme I was happy to hear about it. That’s because this type of model for going racing will grow and so both of us will be like any other team in the world of motorsport, but doing it differently.

Both Brabham and Perrin are looking at open source racing, but I believe there are some key differences between us. I hope both projects succeed so that we can race against each other, which I would love to see.

Perrin are more focussed on a build of an LMP1 car, while we will focus racing in a World Championship that includes Le Mans, plus give access to fans, drivers and engineers through our digital portals. More information about the web applications is coming in the next few weeks. We would also like to give future consideration to series such as Formula E and a return to F1, which again is completely different to Perrin’s vision.

Personally, I am very, very disappointed to see someone with your “brand” stand up and …ignore the existing efforts to then go into a similar market place. Don’t get me wrong — I funded you (as well as Perrinn) and good luck to you etc., but I would have loved to see you actually joining forces.


Perrinn have worked hard in developing their name, brand and reputation and we totally respect this, so no approach was made with the Brabham name. I would like to think that the Brabham name coming back into racing in this way will help any project that is trying to achieve similar things. The media attention we had in the first week was incredible and to have people in 57 countries contribute has brought attention to projects like this, including Perrin, so it will benefit others as well as ourselves.
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Old 8 Oct 2014, 16:36 (Ref:3462265)   #261
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yeah. well, all classy-as-**** gentlemen in the game obviously.
What he replies is true, and that leaves me with an opinion, which is fine.
Plus, thanks for putting this one up @Graham Goodwin.
Back to Mr. Perrinn and his developing project & brand.
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Old 14 Oct 2014, 11:10 (Ref:3464923)   #262
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Alrighty, another gentleman asking the crowd for a quarter million pounds.
This time on the crowdcube platform. And this time it's Mr. Perrinn himself.
Check out the project's homepage, http://www.perrinn.com , for some pointers,
or the crowdcube project page itself: http://www.crowdcube.com/investment/perrinn-16844

To paraphrase from another thread on here, time to give some dreams some solidity.

bonus for the Perrinn campaign: Money's only flowing if he makes the target.
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Old 14 Oct 2014, 14:26 (Ref:3464967)   #263
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To be honest Perrin should have been doing this from the start. The Brabham project was later to the party but it was much better thought out.
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Old 20 Oct 2014, 13:47 (Ref:3466773)   #264
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I have just seen this on DSC:-

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2014/1...ng-effort.html

Very interesting, let see what comes off it.
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Old 20 Oct 2014, 14:02 (Ref:3466776)   #265
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Wow, that's a pretty big step in the right direction! Good for Perrinn!
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Old 20 Oct 2014, 15:13 (Ref:3466800)   #266
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Well, that came out of nowhere. Good luck.

Trailer was a bit weird with Murray Walker commenting some F1 race in the background at some point
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Old 20 Oct 2014, 17:35 (Ref:3466843)   #267
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5000 Euros gets you a 3 lap ride along at Paul Ricard? Awesome. Now they only need a car!!
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Old 30 Oct 2014, 10:46 (Ref:3469930)   #268
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So after seemingly a bit of good news for the LMP1 project Perrin are now looking at Formula 1 too?

http://www.perrinn.com/
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Old 30 Oct 2014, 11:12 (Ref:3469935)   #269
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This is going in a bad direction!
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Old 30 Oct 2014, 11:50 (Ref:3469942)   #270
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Slowly trying to find LMP1 (privateer) funding via alternative methods is one thing, but attempting to do the same for the suicidal money sinkhole that is F1... ehhhh

What are you doing Nicolas, after so many good statements as well as the recent Brazilian linkup in recent months.
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Old 30 Oct 2014, 11:55 (Ref:3469943)   #271
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This is going in a bad direction!
I'm more of an optimist. I see Perrinn not so much as a team as a design consultancy, and if they've got the capacity to design an LMP1, then they could equally well do an F1 car.

If you think of them along the same lines as Wirth or Dome I think this starts to make more sense.
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Old 30 Oct 2014, 23:04 (Ref:3470098)   #272
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I agree. Nothing but options for them. Its not an lmp1 team so much as a designer.
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Old 18 Dec 2014, 21:11 (Ref:3486211)   #273
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Now (2 weeks old news) seeking investment and the crowdfunding has been abandoned.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117021

Could be just the angle and livery (NO BASE WHITE COLOR!) but this looks awesome.



Edit: found more, apparently a fan design but cleary based on the real model: http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/myl...entes-livrees/



And of course... white livery:




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Old 19 Dec 2014, 03:09 (Ref:3486303)   #274
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Second one looks like a bulky Audi R18
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Old 20 Dec 2014, 07:47 (Ref:3486645)   #275
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Rather R18 with DPG2 styling cues, uhh...
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