Team McLaren - can they compete? - Page 57

**Peter Mallett** · 4 Sep 2018, 11:39 (Ref:3848113)

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Pat Fry making a return to McLaren to consult over the 2019 car.

It's being reported in all languages, but nothing official as yet.

Confirmed. https://twitter.com/joesaward/status...17823552086016

F1Guy · 4 Sep 2018, 11:50 (Ref:3848117)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Confirmed. https://twitter.com/joesaward/status...17823552086016

No official confirmation from McLaren. As yet.

**Peter Mallett** · 4 Sep 2018, 11:53 (Ref:3848118)

Confirmed.

https://twitter.com/NobleF1/status/1036923250561957888

BSchneiderFan · 4 Sep 2018, 12:51 (Ref:3848126)

How does this fit with James Key’s eventual arrival from Faenza? Is Fry a stopgap?

**Peter Mallett** · 4 Sep 2018, 13:04 (Ref:3848129)

Well James Key is Technical Director and Pat Fry appears to be Engineering Director.

BSchneiderFan · 4 Sep 2018, 13:18 (Ref:3848131)

Sounds like splitting hairs.

**Peter Mallett** · 4 Sep 2018, 13:25 (Ref:3848132)

Not sure, they appear to be two different titles thus two different positions.

S griffin · 4 Sep 2018, 14:10 (Ref:3848136)

Well done for Norris. He deserves it. He should do well against Sainz. We will see what happens to Vandoorne now

Fry it looks like will be a stopgap before Key comes in

EffectiveSprinkles · 4 Sep 2018, 14:12 (Ref:3848137)

Vandoorne was crap, good riddance. Whatever he did in the lower leagues it all counts for nothing if you can't show a single good thing in an F1 car in two seasons.

S griffin · 4 Sep 2018, 15:41 (Ref:3848163)

Vandoorne was ok, certainly nothing special, but not as bad as people make out

**Aysedasi** · 4 Sep 2018, 17:33 (Ref:3848185)

OK as in really rather average?

**Peter Mallett** · 4 Sep 2018, 18:25 (Ref:3848195)

It is really but it is also reality in today's laughable version of Formula 1. Which has, for the benefit of imbeciles, been abreivated to F1.

We can't give people a chance. We judge them on results rather than effort.

Had that applied in the pre 2010 era, we'd have lost G Hill, D Hill, Moss, Brabham, P Hill, Hawthorn, G Vileneuve, Andretti and so many more. Any one of them more able to race than any one of the posters on here.

So when I see people disrespecting a driver who has more talent than many I have to ask, what makes you so special?

Stoff may not suit the McLaren but he is no slouch. The right environment and a car that actually works might help.

GT6 · 4 Sep 2018, 20:08 (Ref:3848210)

Unfortunately in today's f1 world instant success is all that matters

S griffin · 4 Sep 2018, 20:25 (Ref:3848213)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT6

Unfortunately in today's f1 world instant success is all that matters

Not just F1. Look how many football managers have been sacked before they got the chance

BSchneiderFan · 4 Sep 2018, 22:55 (Ref:3848223)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

So when I see people disrespecting a driver who has more talent than many I have to ask, what makes you so special

With respect, Peter, that’s a silly argument. Following your logic, only other Formula 1 drivers would be entitled to have an opinion on other drivers. I’m not a professional racer - very far from it - but I’ve been watching F1 for 25+ years and I don’t see why I can’t say a driver is good, (relatively) bad or indifferent. (Of course, no-one who gets to Formula 1 is objectively a bad driver, but it’s a sliding scale. And I think Vandoorne has failed to live up to the promise of his junior career, and that there are maybe half a dozen young guys on the grid who would have extracted more from what is undoubtedly a bad McLaren.

Skam85 · 4 Sep 2018, 23:46 (Ref:3848237)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

It is really but it is also reality in today's laughable version of Formula 1. Which has, for the benefit of imbeciles, been abreivated to F1.

We can't give people a chance. We judge them on results rather than effort.

Had that applied in the pre 2010 era, we'd have lost G Hill, D Hill, Moss, Brabham, P Hill, Hawthorn, G Vileneuve, Andretti and so many more. Any one of them more able to race than any one of the posters on here.

So when I see people disrespecting a driver who has more talent than many I have to ask, what makes you so special?

Stoff may not suit the McLaren but he is no slouch. The right environment and a car that actually works might help.

Fair point. Look at Jenson Button's second season when he was at Benetton. The car wasn't very good (comparable actually to the McLaren this year), but he often found himself outqualified by Minardis!

If he was kicked to the kerb, F1 loses a very good driver who was on very much a slow burn with his career (took until the 2003 season to really hit his straps).

Stoff is talented, and like Zak Brown said, a team like Toro Rosso would do well to take him on board.

Should they take him, we may even see him in a Red Bull once the Verstappens get sick of Honda...

rpolinski · 4 Sep 2018, 23:55 (Ref:3848241)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skam85

Stoff is talented, and like Zak Brown said, a team like Toro Rosso would do well to take him on board.

His experience with the Honda engine could be quite valuable. Who better to come and judge what progress (or lack there-of) has been made in the past 12 months.

Skam85 · 4 Sep 2018, 23:58 (Ref:3848243)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpolinski

His experience with the Honda engine could be quite valuable. Who better to come and judge what progress (or lack there-of) has been made in the past 12 months.

Franz Tost: "welcome Stoffel, I bet you're eager for your first test session with TR! Please let us know how the Honda engine compares to when you were with McLaren"

Stoffel: "thanks for the opportunity, can't wait, will report feedback once I've done some flying laps"

*Honda engine fails on the outlap*

Stoffel: "still crap"

BSchneiderFan · 5 Sep 2018, 00:20 (Ref:3848245)

The Honda unit hasn’t been *so* terrible this year, and McLaren’s woeful performances have given lie to the line that they were only being held back by the engine. Turns out they’re more than capable of producing a donkey no matter who their engine partners are.

EffectiveSprinkles · 5 Sep 2018, 00:55 (Ref:3848253)

It seems to me most team bosses in F1 know who is driving a car well. No matter how bad your car is, you can still impress someone in the paddock. Vandoorne has had nearly two full seasons with nothing to show for it at all. Leclerc for example is driving a Sauber which is not really any better of a car and already made more impact in his first half a season than Vandoorne ever has.

It sucks Stroll buys his way into teams but this is still one of the most talented grids in quite a while.

**Peter Mallett** · 5 Sep 2018, 09:56 (Ref:3848291)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

With respect, Peter, that’s a silly argument. Following your logic, only other Formula 1 drivers would be entitled to have an opinion on other drivers. I’m not a professional racer - very far from it - but I’ve been watching F1 for 25+ years and I don’t see why I can’t say a driver is good, (relatively) bad or indifferent. (Of course, no-one who gets to Formula 1 is objectively a bad driver, but it’s a sliding scale. And I think Vandoorne has failed to live up to the promise of his junior career, and that there are maybe half a dozen young guys on the grid who would have extracted more from what is undoubtedly a bad McLaren.

That wasn't really my point. This was my point:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Again, this Manichaean division of drivers - they must be great or terrible, legendary or vastly overrated. ..............................................................

Dixon9 · 5 Sep 2018, 10:10 (Ref:3848293)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

It is really but it is also reality in today's laughable version of Formula 1. Which has, for the benefit of imbeciles, been abreivated to F1.

We can't give people a chance. We judge them on results rather than effort.

Had that applied in the pre 2010 era, we'd have lost G Hill, D Hill, Moss, Brabham, P Hill, Hawthorn, G Vileneuve, Andretti and so many more. Any one of them more able to race than any one of the posters on here.

Stoff may not suit the McLaren but he is no slouch. The right environment and a car that actually works might help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT6

Unfortunately in today's f1 world instant success is all that matters

agreed

**chunterer** · 5 Sep 2018, 11:39 (Ref:3848309)

McLaren have been in such a pickle that it made perfect sense to change the drivers, this will further divert attention away from their relatively poor performances whilst they try and develop their on design operations. plus as I said elsewhere Norris's father may well be quite 'influential'.

So in that respect Vandoorne has simply been a scapegoat of sorts.

I look to Bahrain 2 years ago when he beat Button first time out as a clear indicator of what this guy is capable of when he has a car that works. There have also been very good signs in the last 2 years when reliability or track conditions were good for him.

Both Alonso and Brown have regularly commented very favourably on Vandoorne's ability so I think that Zak may actually have done him a favour.

If the car was a regular podium contender at the least and he was nowhere near Alonso regularly (he has been pretty close to Alonso most of the time btw) then that would be sufficient grounds to write him off.

Shame he won't be on the grid next year but perhaps he can get a good gig as a reserve somewhere and keep upto date with sim work and such nonsense like that.

F1Guy · 5 Sep 2018, 12:01 (Ref:3848311)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Shame he won't be on on the grid next year

What makes you say that?

Are you saying Ericsson deserves a seat more than Vandoorne does?

BSchneiderFan · 5 Sep 2018, 15:01 (Ref:3848337)

Does Vandoorne have any independent financial backing or was it all through being a McLaren protégé? Money and not being utterly hopeless are what’s keeping Ericsson in F1 despite the fierce competition for seats.

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