IMSA DPi Discussion

[carbsmith]

Substantially that often ends up being the case because nearly everything behind the firewall is modified when you switch engines in a car that's normally stressed mid-engine. There's not much there that isn't directly related to the motor and you have to add an entire structure to hold the engine and gearbox for a stock block.

Nissan is a more extreme case because of the physical size of the engine installation and its heavy cooling requirements, look how crammed in that thing is compared to the Gibson. (and you can't even see the full mess of the turbos behind the rear wing)



The small block in the Cadillacs is a decent size and the AER in the Mazdas requires dealing with the turbo but is compact and doesn't require a sub-frame, since it was purpose built for being mounted in a prototype.

[joeb]

In reference to the previous discussion on lap times from Sebring on Continental vs Dunlop rubbber, DSC has posted an analysis of the situation:

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/0...vs-dunlop.html

They mention that no times were officially released from the dunlop test, but heard times were around 3-4 seconds faster than the conti test.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by joeb

In reference to the previous discussion on lap times from Sebring on Continental vs Dunlop rubbber, DSC has posted an analysis of the situation:

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/0...vs-dunlop.html

They mention that no times were officially released from the dunlop test, but heard times were around 3-4 seconds faster than the conti test.

I know who's source GG's is, and it's legit. Once again, I'm less than impressed with the times DPi is doing. They can go so much faster, and I'm afraid this is a real travesty.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

I know who's source GG's is, and it's legit. Once again, I'm less than impressed with the times DPi is doing. They can go so much faster, and I'm afraid this is a real travesty.

It's pretty obvious the Continental tires are the source of the slow(er) times. Even if weather conditions or other series' tests are putting different rubber on the track, I don't believe that's 3 seconds worth of time.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by TF110

It's pretty obvious the Continental tires are the source of the slow(er) times. Even if weather conditions or other series' tests are putting different rubber on the track, I don't believe that's 3 seconds worth of time.

It's 100% the rubber. They can go much quicker, and should be.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

It's 100% the rubber. They can go much quicker, and should be.

Too bad we won't get the apples to apples comps at COTA again this season.

Not to belabor the point, but do we know how much different the conti tire is this year vs previous? I know dimensions are different, but did they really change the compound that much?

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by joeb

Too bad we won't get the apples to apples comps at COTA again this season.

Not to belabor the point, but do we know how much different the conti tire is this year vs previous? I know dimensions are different, but did they really change the compound that much?

As far as I'm aware, it's a similar construction, but a slightly different compound. I guess what irritates me is that IMSA knows the cars can go faster, they know what they need to do to build a faster tire, but, they don't want to....

WE. WANT. SPEED.

Maybe someone needs to pin down Atherton, and ask him why they won't build a faster tire? I'll be in Sebring, if I come across him, I'll be damned if I won't ask.

[Damian Baldi]

Very interesting. I had understood that the old continental tyres had a different construction, because an unique design had to be able to be used on the DPs, P2s and GTD. It was supposed that the new tyre should have a different construction and compound too.

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Maybe someone needs to pin down Atherton, and ask him why they won't build a faster tire? I'll be in Sebring, if I come across him, I'll be damned if I won't ask.

Why would you subject yourself to listening to Scott Atherton non-answering questions.

[Rodger Davies]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

As far as I'm aware, it's a similar construction, but a slightly different compound. I guess what irritates me is that IMSA knows the cars can go faster, they know what they need to do to build a faster tire, but, they don't want to....

WE. WANT. SPEED.

Maybe someone needs to pin down Atherton, and ask him why they won't build a faster tire? I'll be in Sebring, if I come across him, I'll be damned if I won't ask.

But you already know the answer to that. Money. Continental pay for exclusivity, so why do they need to design a better tyre? They have no competition. Just like Pirelli in GT series around the world.

On simplistic terms, say your motorsport department has a budget of $5m. Route 1 could be pour all that into development and open competition, Route 2 could be pay $2m for exclusivity and $3m for development. Both can be justified.

Also, I don't see why the teams would necessarily mind. Not the ones funding the series anyway. GM have the luxury of having a car specifically designed around the Continental tyres they are using exclusively, whereas many of their competitors will likely have been optimised to the Dunlops that are commonplace in ELMS/WEC/AsLMS.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

But you already know the answer to that. Money. Continental pay for exclusivity, so why do they need to design a better tyre? They have no competition. Just like Pirelli in GT series around the world.

On simplistic terms, say your motorsport department has a budget of $5m. Route 1 could be pour all that into development and open competition, Route 2 could be pay $2m for exclusivity and $3m for development. Both can be justified.

Also, I don't see why the teams would necessarily mind. Not the ones funding the series anyway. GM have the luxury of having a car specifically designed around the Continental tyres they are using exclusively, whereas many of their competitors will likely have been optimised to the Dunlops that are commonplace in ELMS/WEC/AsLMS.

Correct. The more money Conti spends on tire development, the less money directly flows into IMSA's pocket. Simple as that.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

Why would you subject yourself to listening to Scott Atherton non-answering questions.

Gutton for punishment?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by godlameroso

When everyone sees what Honda is capable of this year with their F1 power unit, all the DPi teams will fear Honda's arrival.

Honda have used more than their entire seasons worth of allocated engines in 5 days of testing so far.

I hope the DPi is better than that mess.

[Coach Ep]

Their latest DP/P2 engine used last year by Shank and ESM seemed to be plenty competitive and reliable though.

No need to drag the completely unrelated F1 program into this.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Honda have used more than their entire seasons worth of allocated engines in 5 days of testing so far.

I hope the DPi is better than that mess.

I assume Honda will use the 3.5 lump that won Daytona, Sebring, and Petit last year.

HPD, the U.S. firm that will be responsible for the DPi program, has a pretty solid record on engines. Their 2.2 lump won Indy last year, for example. Now hopefully they don't get too risky on bodywork, Chevy has schooled them on the aero side in IndyCar.

Chris

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Honda have used more than their entire seasons worth of allocated engines in 5 days of testing so far.

I hope the DPi is better than that mess.

Well, it seems they haven't. They were using an engine from last week for the test this morning. The total number of them used is 3 or 4 and they're not the same spec as what Honda will bring to the first race. Testing is not f1's bright spot. You get 8 whole days in the preseason before Melbourne. Wow, no wonder no one is joining as an engine maker.

Like others have said, the Dpi is not going to be the same 'Honda' anyway. Hpd is based in America. The f1 project is in Sakura Japan.

[Damian Baldi]

And we should have to add that at IMSA you have to use a stock block, so no f1 or WEC P1 engines.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by TF110

Well, it seems they haven't. They were using an engine from last week for the test this morning. The total number of them used is 3 or 4 and they're not the same spec as what Honda will bring to the first race. Testing is not f1's bright spot. You get 8 whole days in the preseason before Melbourne. Wow, no wonder no one is joining as an engine maker.

Like others have said, the Dpi is not going to be the same 'Honda' anyway. Hpd is based in America. The f1 project is in Sakura Japan.

They've done 6 changes and admitted to rolling back to one old engine. They were also quoted as "4 or 5" engines used.

Of course I did actually quote the person who made the ridiculous link between the F1 project and the DPi project, to make it obvious what I was referring to, but don't let that stop you trying to tell me my own point.

Of course if we're discussing HPD, they haven't exactly set the world alight with the latest creations have they.

[TF110]

Wasn't trying to be rude or negative. Sorry if you took it that way. I don't follow Honda as closely as Toyota or Subaru but I do get saddened by the way things are going for them in f1. I don't know what the dpi will be like but the engine might be a good spot for them as the chassis was the letdown for the last arx that raced!

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by Damian Baldi

And we should have to add that at IMSA you have to use a stock block, so no f1 or WEC P1 engines.

No.

[chernaudi]

No LMP1 spec engines, but the Mazda engine has little to do with any stock block engine, and the 4.2 Gibson ACO spec V8 can be used.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Of course if we're discussing HPD, they haven't exactly set the world alight with the latest creations have they.

Yeah, the IndyCar road and street bodywork is perhaps a little over-thought, and certainly underperforms compared to the visually simpler Chevy. And the ARX-04 never got off the ground, but then again...







They swept the important races, anyway.

Chris

[joeb]

Caddy's have been pulled back again prior to Sebring.

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/ca...e-sebring-bop/

[TF110]

So will it be they are still fastest, or will they be too slow, will they sandbag for better bop, or will they be about equal with the others?

[RWill2073]

Yay, more penalizing success. Don't worry about developing your car as much as Cadillac have, just show up unprepared like Mazda and he rewarded. There's got to be a better way to do this.....