How will McLaren control Montoya?

Glen · 26 May 2005, 12:05 (Ref:1310634)

JPM had a great race in Monaco, despite starting with that penalty - he does seem to be back in form, even if he is still prone to be excitable (I guess that's part of what I always liked about him). Now - Kimi is highly unlikely to be able to grab this WDC if Montoya takes any points whatsoever away from him, and McLaren have themselves refused to rule out team orders. But - Juan ain't exactly the team orders type.

Montoya's job from here on in must be to roll in behind Kimi wherever possible - can you see him doing that?

**Adam43** · 26 May 2005, 12:09 (Ref:1310637)

I see him beating Kimi in a few races. He is driving well, but I think Kimi is driving better at the moment so the normal situation will be him finishing ahead. However JPM will steal a few off him.

Of course we will have to endure a summer of BS, conspiracy theories and misinformed rubbish. Nothing new then.

Kicking-back · 26 May 2005, 12:18 (Ref:1310650)

Kimi is the better driver of the two - Montoya will only be ahead on a few occasions.

Gia_76 · 26 May 2005, 12:25 (Ref:1310656)

Montoya is kind of Kimi's Barichello. He drives quite well but Kimi is ahead.

Skam85 · 26 May 2005, 12:28 (Ref:1310659)

It is 6 races into the season. That mean 13 races to go. 130 points. Translated: even Friesacher can snatch the WDC.

312T4 · 26 May 2005, 13:20 (Ref:1310693)

No chance for jpm to beat kimi.
JPM could be the worst Mclaren driver since Mansell in 95...
We cannot think Ron Dennis to be happy with a driver who can maximum win few races.
He needs drivers to challenge for the championship, like Kimi.

Glen · 26 May 2005, 13:32 (Ref:1310697)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Of course we will have to endure a summer of BS, conspiracy theories and misinformed rubbish. Nothing new then.

when the team themselves don't rule out team orders it kind of leaves the door open for a bit of speculation, don't you think?

I agree with most of you so far, in so much as I believe Montoya is capable of only the occassional win over Kimi. But that could easily be enough to keep Kimi from the WDC.

The only way for the team to manage this situation is by using subtle strategies - if they blatantly deploy orders they could risk losing any advantage gained.

As for Montoya not being a good driver - I am not even sure I should dignify that with a response! I'll have to bite though - who was the last driver to win in a Williams, and that in a head-to-head scrap with the very same Kimi? On the right day, JPM is every bit as fast and competitive as any driver - consistency is his minor weak spot, not maximum potential.

Sodemo · 26 May 2005, 13:45 (Ref:1310703)

Remote control...

BootsOntheSide · 26 May 2005, 13:47 (Ref:1310704)

Montoya's Monaco weekend was generally pretty strong, and it's a shame the (admittedly ill-advised) pracitce incident dominated the outcome. Considering that he's had to return to full fitness, and msised a lot of time in the car, he can get better within the team, and I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that he will be slower than Kimi all year.

**Adam43** · 26 May 2005, 14:45 (Ref:1310738)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen

when the team themselves don't rule out team orders it kind of leaves the door open for a bit of speculation, don't you think?

Agreed it does leave the door open for BS, conspiracy theories and misinformed rubbish. I hope they do nothing to stop that, even if they do it will make no difference

and the latest interview with Whitmarsh does little to rule out anything or confirm anything. The way it should be. The team can do what they want, when they want!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen

But that could easily be enough to keep Kimi from the WDC.

It may well do. We'll see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen

The only way for the team to manage this situation is by using subtle strategies - if they blatantly deploy orders they could risk losing any advantage gained.

Well you risk ruining everything there and that could easily be enough to stopa WCC or WDC.

It is too early in the season to tell and too early for McLaren to consider doing anything if they wanted to. Montoya is closer to Raikkonen than Raikkonen is to Alonso.

Glen · 26 May 2005, 14:52 (Ref:1310742)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Agreed it does leave the door open for BS, conspiracy theories and misinformed rubbish. I hope they do nothing to stop that, even if they do it will make no difference

and the latest interview with Whitmarsh does little to rule out anything or confirm anything. The way it should be. The team can do what they want, when they want!

Why describe the natural speculation as BS etc? It isn't BS - they have done it before, and they themselves admit that they might do it again. How does that add up to BS?

**Adam43** · 26 May 2005, 15:18 (Ref:1310755)

because most natural speculation is wrong

Kicking-back · 26 May 2005, 15:19 (Ref:1310757)

All this talk of BS! McLaren run on M!

Glen · 26 May 2005, 15:25 (Ref:1310768)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

All this talk of BS! McLaren run on M!

No - I've heard RD speak, and he definitley runs on a premium brand of BS!

**Adam43** · 26 May 2005, 15:37 (Ref:1310774)

Although he does run BS that goes on and on and on, which is more than Ferrari can.

Glen · 26 May 2005, 15:39 (Ref:1310775)

A strong BAR and Williams will surely help here though - if any one of those four drivers gets in the intervening points positions between wherever Kimi finishes and wherever Alonso ends up (assuming McLaren continue to dominate) then the pressure will be slightly off for those races where JPM might out-point Kimi.

ralf fan · 26 May 2005, 15:40 (Ref:1310776)

I think JPM needs a perfectly working car to beat Kimi and this wont be possible every weekend.... while Kimi is able to sneak good results in a slightly off pace car...

JPM will beat Kimi on some occasions but IMO Kimi is just that little bit better IMO... and id expect Kimi to finish ahead anyways without JPM's help... provided there is no race drama....

dcp2685 · 26 May 2005, 15:50 (Ref:1310782)

I don't think there will be any remote control on JPM. He's 13 points behind Kimi at the moment with 13 races left. All it takes is a Kimi DNF and a JPM win or 2nd and he's right back in the thick of it.

Kicking-back · 26 May 2005, 15:50 (Ref:1310783)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralf fan

I think JPM needs a perfectly working car to beat Kimi and this wont be possible every weekend.... .

They used to say the exact opposite vis a vis Ralf and Juan Pablo

senna12 · 26 May 2005, 15:59 (Ref:1310785)

As long as Kimi and Juan can finish ahead of their competitors in the races, the point spread to Alonso will continue to shrink, and in that case, I'm sure Ron would let Juan finish ahead of Kimi if that were their positions at the checkers, but if they're fighting for 2nd or 3rd places in a race later in the season, I could see the team insuring Kimi finishes in front, with Juan right behind, stealing Fernando's points if possible.

Mr V · 26 May 2005, 16:14 (Ref:1310792)

JPM's only 13 points behind dispite missing 2 races and racing with a damaged shoulder in Spain.

It's far too early to be wondering how McLaren are going to control (or use for want of a better word) JPM.

Mr V · 26 May 2005, 16:32 (Ref:1310822)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Kimi is the better driver of the two - Montoya will only be ahead on a few occasions.

Kimi's driving better at this stage of the season, JPm is still settling into the team. JPM was the better driver in the 4 seasons at Williams with Rafe, but took him half a season to get up to speed.

There is nothing to suggest that once upto speed, Kimi is the better overall driver.

Logrence · 26 May 2005, 19:03 (Ref:1310949)

Montoya has been in Formula One for ages - I put forward the contentious notion that he's not yet actually proven he's any good.

**chunterer** · 26 May 2005, 19:23 (Ref:1310978)

Some very strange comments here folks!

I get the point of the thread but some of us are using it as another excuse for a round of 'Montoya beating'

I would say he's settled in the team now and he has pretty much found the pace. We know the guy is good as he's the only driver to have had the bottle to take on (win or lose) Schumacher in a straight fight on the track over the last few years.

I thought he showed admirable restraint in last 2 laps at Monaco to finish the race when i would have put money on him having a (successful) pop at Alonso for an extra point?

I totally agree with the opinions about the minimal points difference between Kimi and Juan - i mean Juan was out for 2 races and Kimi didn't score!

I bet ya bottom dollar that if Kimi missed 2 races, JPM would have bagged a decent haul!

Also i doubt very much JPM has signed a contract over a year before he joined Ron that stipulates that he's got to back up his teem-mate after only 6 races of the year and he has a perfectly legitimate chance of getting back into it himself, esp now McLaren have a distinct equipment advantage!

Kicking-back · 26 May 2005, 20:05 (Ref:1311017)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

I totally agree with the opinions about the minimal points difference between Kimi and Juan - i mean Juan was out for 2 races and Kimi didn't score!

I bet ya bottom dollar that if Kimi missed 2 races, JPM would have bagged a decent haul!

Incorrect.

He finished third in one, and had a mechanical failure while leading the other

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