Boycotting salted circuits ???

[gt917]

Further to previous references on the Oulton Park meeting this weekend and the salting that has been witnessed there, and at other circuits over the last year, it has come as a shock to me, and possibly many other viewers.

My view is that it is a highly irresponsible action by circuit owners and that they should be boycotted during relevant meetings, and maybe a petition drawn up and sent to the owners.

Until Al mentioned it, i had no idea that salting would even be considered by a caring circuit because of the horrendous damage that will befall ANY car that is tainted with salt spray. Wet, or after drying, the acidic nature of it will microscopically discolour and eat away at virtually any surface.
Also consider that once rewetted, a so called clean road surface will still give off a salted spray until really diluted and washed away.

What do you think about my thoughts on this subject ?

[PRS RH01]

Originally Posted by gt917

Further to previous references on the Oulton Park meeting this weekend and the salting that has been witnessed there, and at other circuits over the last year, it has come as a shock to me, and possibly many other viewers.

My view is that it is a highly irresponsible action by circuit owners and that they should be boycotted during relevant meetings, and maybe a petition drawn up and sent to the owners.

Until Al mentioned it, i had no idea that salting would even be considered by a caring circuit because of the horrendous damage that will befall ANY car that is tainted with salt spray. Wet, or after drying, the acidic nature of it will microscopically discolour and eat away at virtually any surface.
Also consider that once rewetted, a so called clean road surface will still give off a salted spray until really diluted and washed away.

What do you think about my thoughts on this subject ?

I have just phoned Anglesey and they have promised to put 50 foot walls up to stop all that see salt .
In all fairness i agree salt and ali dont mix but a good pressure wash would solve this problem if done as you get the car back from Park Farm .

[gt917]

PRS RH 01,

You have completely missed the point regarding direct aggresive salt gritting.

Anglesey never get the same degree or even type of salt. You are very na`ive if you think that a quick hose down is enough after a real salt spray.

Now back to the serious question please.

[M Greenslade]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FQ_wBHfEzg

Have a look at the attached, go to about 20mins........

Bladders........

[PRS RH01]

Sorry i think you have got me wrong I fully support not salting .The damage wont show for a couple of days but having raced on Anglesey at the end of season on many occasions i can testify to its damage, but i have found a good wash down immedietly and a coating in wd40 go a long way to limiting any damage . As i enjoy Anglesey i will carry on doing this .

As a general rule salt and racing dont mix .

[Rudernst]

Originally Posted by gt917

Further to previous references on the Oulton Park meeting this weekend and the salting that has been witnessed there, and at other circuits over the last year, it has come as a shock to me, and possibly many other viewers.

My view is that it is a highly irresponsible action by circuit owners and that they should be boycotted during relevant meetings, and maybe a petition drawn up and sent to the owners.

Until Al mentioned it, i had no idea that salting would even be considered by a caring circuit because of the horrendous damage that will befall ANY car that is tainted with salt spray. Wet, or after drying, the acidic nature of it will microscopically discolour and eat away at virtually any surface.
Also consider that once rewetted, a so called clean road surface will still give off a salted spray until really diluted and washed away.

What do you think about my thoughts on this subject ?

for one:
salt (NaCl) is not acidic, in fact its exactly the opposite

a very good clean will help
if worried, spray some WD 40 after the clean
recheck after a day or two
dont put car in shed and revisit after 2 weeks
time plays an important role

my factory handles thousands of tons of salt per year
you can get on top of it, if you want

id be most worried about magnesium parts btw

i was not aware that racetracks get salted
but i am not surprised either

what else can you do on an icy day ?

aaaand, a good long rain will wash it away from the track

Rudolf

[gt917]

Originally Posted by M Greenslade

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FQ_wBHfEzg

Have a look at the attached, go to about 20mins........

Bladders........

Wow Bladders, great find.

I wonder what those Chevron mechanics had to say about the clean up of all that alloy and plated work following that race.

Fabulous footage.

[gt917]

Ok Rudolf,

not acidic but very corrosive.
Road gritting salt does rely on being crushed /disturbed to dilute and melt ice and snow. Heavy rain does not always wash away the heavier granules that can lie around in the gutters/verges and you cannot guarantee that you might have heavy enough rain following its laying down.

It is just not good enough to give a wash down or even a spray with WD40. Many people will simply be unable to give a major clean down in time before corrosion starts, and that can start within minutes on some light plated or non protected surfaces.

You try it sometime, then cry and pull your hair out !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again i say it is an irresponsible thing for circuits to salt the tracks.

[midgetman]

One of the guys we race with at Clay tested there on a salted circuit, it wrecked a set of bearings and left his mag axle carriers all pitted.

You can see why the circuit owners do it - snowed off = no income, track salted and open = your fault for not going on it = full payment due

[Mike Bell]

Interesting this has come up. Perhaps with global warming something we will all have to take more note of in future! As already posted on the other thread, I would not race on a salted track, if I was aware that it had been. My choice. Some cars would need stripping to a bare chassis afterwards to ensure every nook and cranny was cleaned and protected from potential corrosion, time consuming and expensive either way! And as for pressure washing a race car, I never do, unless it is a casing or similar thing off the car. Again, my choice.

[Dave Brand]

Would I be correct in thinking that Germany doesn't use salt to de-ice roads? I have a vague memory of discussing this on a business trip to Nordrhein-Westfalen in the 1990s & being told that they used urea.

[JimW]

Originally Posted by M Greenslade

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FQ_wBHfEzg

Have a look at the attached, go to about 20mins........

Bladders........

Proper cars, proper circuit, proper racing - sigh.

Jim

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

Would I be correct in thinking that Germany doesn't use salt to de-ice roads? I have a vague memory of discussing this on a business trip to Nordrhein-Westfalen in the 1990s & being told that they used urea.

We can all help there...

Do NZ use volcanic ash? Not much help for us, I appreciate!

Jim, agree, great video!

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

Would I be correct in thinking that Germany doesn't use salt to de-ice roads? I have a vague memory of discussing this on a business trip to Nordrhein-Westfalen in the 1990s & being told that they used urea.

Which plays havoc with rubber, copper and other stuff. Rots leather too.

[Alan Morgan]

We had a Historic FF2000 press day at Brands in December a couple of years ago and the salted track surface certainly played havoc with magnesium Hewland gearbox casings. I have seen the same thing with a car that's been towed on an open trailer on a salted motorway. A very thorough wash down, a lot of compressed air to blow away the water afterwards, followed by repeated daily applications of WD40 over the next week or two minimises the damage but won't necessarily restore the appearance.

[terence]

Not really sure what they use in Germany-but it works. Fortunately no one has any links with any Sugar processing plants,where all the poxy molasses come from that makes british roads just as slippery when damp. So whats being proposed is refusing on a treated circuit? what about your entry fee because the track would be open,but your refusing to use it? That could be interesting.

[Rudernst]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Not really sure what they use in Germany-but it works. Fortunately no one has any links with any Sugar processing plants,where all the poxy molasses come from that makes british roads just as slippery when damp. So whats being proposed is refusing on a treated circuit? what about your entry fee because the track would be open,but your refusing to use it? That could be interesting.

We use salt on German roads, sometimes when ist very cold, they use partly dissolved salt that is mixed with some water.
On very very cold days they also use Magnesium cloride straight or blended with regular salt. MgCl which at lower temperature than regular salt (sodium cloride)
it very rarely used, much more corrossive than salt especially es a blend, and also 2-3 times as expensive, which limits use anyway

what I did not know is that You Brits used molasses
would not know why because it is much more expensive than salt because it is valuable cattle feed

and, yes i trade more sugar than salt and molasses also


what we find with salt packing machinery is that you need to Keep it moving
a machine can pack salt for years and look ok,
retire it and put it in storage, and it will rust more in 8 weeks of idling that in the 10 years of work before.

the Urea and granule phase of German road treatment is over
all replacement was found to be more harmful to environment that salt, or tended to block Drains
they have learnt however to get mor de-icing with less salt through better dispersal machinerey, pre solution in water and such
road salting is the major salt use in Germany and I would guess in most european countries
100 times more salt Ends up on roads than on tables

Rudolf

[terence]

Thanks Rudolf,at least I know what I'm driving on The molasses, allegedly,helps the salt to adhere to the road surface.It also reduces the tons and tons of the stuff they dont know what to do with it. Its the reason why there are so many accidents once the ice has melted and why its almost impossible to drive more the 100 meters without the car becoming filthy.

[Mike Bell]

Going back to the original question, should the situation occur I am sure it will come down to individuals making their own decision whether to race on a salt treated track or not. What I would expect is for the circuit concerned to advise competitors and organisers of any treatment so that they can make their own 'risk assessment'.

Running something rare and valuable from the 60s / 70s, with alloy tub / body, perhaps riveted with steel rivets to a steel spaceframe, magnesium castings, and everything rose jointed would be a bit different to running a modern production saloon for instance! (If anything like the latter exists, that is!)

[terence]

Yep,quite agree Mike.I am well aware of just how much havock salt can cause,having done some winter rallying.I suppose ultimately the owner has to decide if the entry fee outweighs the cleaning cost's.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Yep,quite agree Mike.I am well aware of just how much havock salt can cause,having done some winter rallying.I suppose ultimately the owner has to decide if the entry fee outweighs the cleaning cost's.

Your last sentence is it in a nutshell. In my WRC employment days the cars would be stripped to a bare shell after every event, every component cleaned, tested and replaced if required, shell (if repairable) repaired and repainted, then built up from scratch again. It was part of the routine. Am sure it is no different now.

A 60 minute HF1, WSM or GD race on a salt treated track could result in hundreds of man hours of work after, or risk the consequences. Good business for preparers, of course!

[Al Weyman]

Just race in the summer months and be done March is simply too early.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Just race in the summer months and be done March is simply too early.

Emigrate!

[terence]

Its still bloody cold over here! One major difference being that its not combined with the dampness of the UK. Supposed to be wet for the first part of next week,then spring will arrive!

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Emigrate!

Good morning Mike !