Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 23 Nov 2005, 07:03 (Ref:1468064)   #1
Grimace
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Sydney
Posts: 917
Grimace should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
HMS engine power advantage clear cut!!!

I have it on good authority that the HMS engines (HSV)now have a solid power advantage and gained 5 car lengths on the Symonds Plain straight over Falcon?

This weekend with the long Gardner Straight will show the advantage for all to see-so watch and comment here after the meeting.

Some must remember Craig Lowndes mention on TV of the lack of straight line speed of the SBR engines.


He publicly stated "we need more engine power"

Trouble for FORD is the three race parity asessment stops at the end of a season so these 2 last races where HSV hosed the lead Falcons for straight line speed dont count!!!!!!!!!!!

Falcon has to wait till next season to be assessed for any power disadvantage
allowing a balance in power for both brands.
Grimace is offline  
__________________
888 LOWNDES/WHINCUP 2006-2007-2008 BATHURST 1000 WINNERS !!!!
Whincup 2008 champion !-the mighty team 888-now FG for 2009 champion !
'those who choose to ignore history are are doomed to repeat it'
Quote
Old 23 Nov 2005, 07:39 (Ref:1468072)   #2
Raglanparade
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Australia
Posts: 2,382
Raglanparade should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
If ford cant make a powerful engine then its their own problem
Raglanparade is offline  
__________________
... without motorsport, what is sport?
Quote
Old 23 Nov 2005, 07:42 (Ref:1468073)   #3
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
yes, i watching those HRT cars when The Clowns was right behind them, didn't notice any difference. But maybe the HSVDT and Richo were getting away, or maybe they just had a better power down package
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Nov 2005, 08:58 (Ref:1468102)   #4
GTRMagic
Race Official
1% Club
 
GTRMagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Australia
Sell me this pen....
Posts: 46,572
GTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
I think power down had a lot to do with the speed of the HMS cars at Symmons Plains.

Its funny that the speed differential wasnt as pronounced at Bathurst... which does suggest a chassis tuning problem rather than an outright lack of grunt in Tassie.

If Mr Booth wants to chuck a couple more million at SBRE, I am sure they can dig up more than a few horsepower.... the link with BJR will help the budget here.. and improve the speed of developments.
GTRMagic is offline  
__________________
Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003
“I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions
“Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men
“Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House
Quote
Old 23 Nov 2005, 10:11 (Ref:1468161)   #5
Grimace
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Sydney
Posts: 917
Grimace should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonhill9884
If ford cant make a powerful engine then its their own problem
Oh its easy to fix, there is a superior cylinder head that will improve the situation but getting those in authority to approve it is another thing.

As i said everyone heard Lowndes comment on TV last meeting !

now its time to "rattle a few sabres" to avoid a one sided speed advantage - (which Holden will do all in its power to maintain.)

Power down GTR?? i know..but when Lowndes lost Tander by 5 car lengths on the straight THATS A POWER ADVANTAGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HE COULD NOT RESPOND ! bring on the improved head-nothing has changed to the Falcon engine for years NOW its needed!

The blue side should watch for speed differeential between the top cars (HRT,HSV,SBR AND 888) this weekend more closely that in the past.

all that is needed for close racing for 06 is an equalisation of power output,easily acheived!!!
Grimace is offline  
__________________
888 LOWNDES/WHINCUP 2006-2007-2008 BATHURST 1000 WINNERS !!!!
Whincup 2008 champion !-the mighty team 888-now FG for 2009 champion !
'those who choose to ignore history are are doomed to repeat it'
Quote
Old 23 Nov 2005, 10:30 (Ref:1468176)   #6
GTRMagic
Race Official
1% Club
 
GTRMagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Australia
Sell me this pen....
Posts: 46,572
GTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimace
Power down GTR?? i know..but when Lowndes lost Tander by 5 car lengths on the straight THATS A POWER ADVANTAGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree with you, but all 4 of the HMS cars come off the turns beautifully... with the 2 SBR cars looking all at sea, and Mr Lowndes not showing the dominance evident at other tracks this season.

If the HSVDT cars were so quick in a straight line, where were their deficiencies in order for them to be only a poofteenth quicker than the field... that kind of grunt should have ripped seconds off the laptimes....
GTRMagic is offline  
__________________
Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003
“I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions
“Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men
“Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House
Quote
Old 23 Nov 2005, 10:52 (Ref:1468186)   #7
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
.2 to .3 seconds is bit more than a pooftenth though (based on fastest laps in each race at SP)
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Nov 2005, 12:27 (Ref:1468256)   #8
Rombles1
Veteran
 
Rombles1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Australia
Facebook
Posts: 1,940
Rombles1 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Is there a difference in what the rules say you can put in a Holden engine compared with a Ford engine? I seem to remember some Ford fans gloating about what a dog the Aurora engine was, and how the Ford engine was so much better. Have the rules been changed, or have Holden just done what they usually do, and developed a superior product within the existing rules?

If there is no mandated difference between a Ford engine and a Holden engine, maybe SBR/Ford should do some more development?
Rombles1 is offline  
__________________
HSV - Sideways cars from an upside down country.
Quote
Old 23 Nov 2005, 12:49 (Ref:1468283)   #9
Raglanparade
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Australia
Posts: 2,382
Raglanparade should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
There was nothing wrong with the Aurora engine, from memory it was the first all new Holden V8 Supercar engine design in quite a number of years.

Ford on the other hand is still attempting to develop an engine that they have been developing for a considerable number of years (this is the impression i get anyway).

The Aurora engine started a little powerless compared to the existing Ford unit, but due to being a completely new product, it has been able to be developed and tweeked to provide more horsepower (or maybe possibly torque) then the previous Holden unit, and the current Ford unit.

It would appear that Ford would have to come up with a complete new engine in the Aurora vain, and start the development cycle again if they are going increase their power significantly over the next few years.
Raglanparade is offline  
__________________
... without motorsport, what is sport?
Quote
Old 23 Nov 2005, 14:52 (Ref:1468394)   #10
mixxer
Veteran
 
mixxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Australia
Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 1,313
mixxer has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
The Aurora (Chev) or Holden motorsport engine (as Holden prefer you to call it) was introduced to negate the perceived advantage the Ford motorsport engine with its "canted valve" heads had over the older Chev 18 degree heads.
The ford design does have an inherently better flow (CFM) and combustion chamber shape where as the older Chev engine with its siamese ports 18 degree head shrouded the valves much more which potentially restricted the flow in the upper rev range.
As I understood it though the ford head design only gave an advantage at or above 7300 rpm, Holden lobbied that as the advantage was there even if it was only in the last 200 rpm they should be allowed the new block and head design.
Of course its all swings and roundabouts as the older 18 degree engine had a much flatter torque curve then both the existing Ford and the newer Aurora engine.
IMO without putting the 2 engines on the same dyno it would be just BS to think you could say 1 has an advantage over the other by watching at the track, even at Bathurst on Conrod this year the exit speed from Forests elbow decided the Vmax at the entry of the chase.
A good example is the MotoGP guys where the Honda V5 is acknowledged with having more power than the Yamaha i4 yet ol Rossi is still with them (most times) at the end of the straight. Thats just down to better corner exit speed due to having a better setup.
and thats my 2c
mixxer is offline  
__________________
Ignorance is the easy way out, and the easy way out is rarely the best.
Fighting ignorance takes dedication, desire, and effort.
Quote
Old 23 Nov 2005, 20:39 (Ref:1468743)   #11
Dazz
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location:
Sydney
Posts: 952
Dazz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I find it hard to believe anyone could say there was a whole five car lengths difference in acceleration down the back straight! Five car lengths is like 25 metres, a massive distance.

I didn't see Rick Kelly pull Ambrose in by five car lengths down the back straight, nor did I see Lowndes get dropped off by that amount either.

I think sometimes comments get taken far too seriously and people cling to anything that will help them deal with their car losing.

If there was a power deficit then Bathurst would have shown it up big time, and it didn't. The fact that Lowndes and Ambrose were so fast points towards no lack of engine speed. Especially if you believe they are slower over the mountain, and thus must have more straight line speed to post lap times as fast. Or maybe they can brake a lot later?????

James Courney was quoted as saying something like "the HRT and SBR cars have similar power but the SBR engine is much smoother to drive". Sounds like an informed comment to me rather than us sitting here trying to make subjective calls from things said with no technical information to back it up.
Dazz is offline  
__________________
Ego, is not a dirty word
Quote
Old 23 Nov 2005, 20:50 (Ref:1468749)   #12
White Knight
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
This will all mean nothing when they go to the common cylinder heads!
 
Quote
Old 24 Nov 2005, 02:17 (Ref:1468961)   #13
RotorFan
Veteran
 
RotorFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Australia
Sydney
Posts: 2,208
RotorFan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTRMagic
I agree with you, but all 4 of the HMS cars come off the turns beautifully... with the 2 SBR cars looking all at sea, and Mr Lowndes not showing the dominance evident at other tracks this season.

If the HSVDT cars were so quick in a straight line, where were their deficiencies in order for them to be only a poofteenth quicker than the field... that kind of grunt should have ripped seconds off the laptimes....
Since the hairpin is so slow, a good exit off the corner will make a huge difference to the speed down the back straight. Whoever says they have more power just need to work on getting the power down out of corners.

I don't understand all of this cuffufle though. SBR have clearly had a power advantage for 2003 and 2004, by a country mile. All of a sudden someone perceives HMS to have more power and theres all this talk about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimace
Trouble for FORD is the three race parity asessment stops at the end of a season so these 2 last races where HSV hosed the lead Falcons for straight line speed dont count!!!!!!!!!!!

Falcon has to wait till next season to be assessed for any power disadvantage
allowing a balance in power for both brands.
Can someone explain this for me?
RotorFan is offline  
Quote
Old 24 Nov 2005, 02:54 (Ref:1468973)   #14
Peter Nightingale
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Australia
Australia
Posts: 389
Peter Nightingale should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTRMagic
I think power down had a lot to do with the speed of the HMS cars at Symmons Plains.

Its funny that the speed differential wasnt as pronounced at Bathurst... which does suggest a chassis tuning problem rather than an outright lack of grunt in Tassie.

If Mr Booth wants to chuck a couple more million at SBRE, I am sure they can dig up more than a few horsepower.... the link with BJR will help the budget here.. and improve the speed of developments.
you are very correct in what you have said ,regards
Peter Nightingale is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FF1600 Engine Power Redracer77 Club Level Single Seaters 72 29 Jun 2004 18:37
Engine power pirenzo Sportscar & GT Racing 38 27 Jan 2003 18:04
Toyota's Engine Power Mark F1 Formula One 27 19 Jan 2002 23:30
Changing engine POWER ? renaultbel Formula One 1 21 Jul 2001 14:36
Engine Horse Power BBKing Formula One 6 30 Jun 2001 01:37


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:55.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.