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Old 28 Sep 2003, 16:57 (Ref:732954)   #1
Edmonton
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Edmonton should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Formula2

Autosport has info on the planned Formula2 series on 05 to replace F3000. The car they showed in the mag was a car completly built by Zytek. It has a 3.5l 575hp v8 and a formula1 like chassis that looks kind of like f1 in 97/98.
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Old 29 Sep 2003, 16:21 (Ref:734282)   #2
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The car is actually the old Reynard 02 Formula Nippon chassis - Zytek bought the rights to use it when Reynard collapsed last year.
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Old 30 Sep 2003, 20:21 (Ref:735808)   #3
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SALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Lets hope Zytek dont get the deal, im not at all convinced that the old Reynard that ran in Nippon last year is better than the Lola b2/50 chasis. The engine is better sure, but the chasis? Hmm I dunno. Personally I hope Lola and Renault can work something out..
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Old 30 Sep 2003, 21:40 (Ref:735941)   #4
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esorniloc should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think it would be better to have a BIG manufacturer who builds the engines.

But if Zytek build the chassis (have they ever built any chassis before?) the car would be a Zytek-Renault, which sounds awful!
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Old 1 Oct 2003, 16:59 (Ref:736896)   #5
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I can't see Zytek building the chassis and not the engine - they are primarily an engine manufacturer after all.

I am pretty sure it will be a Lola chassis...and probably a Zytek engine (even if it's badged as a Renault).
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Old 2 Oct 2003, 12:12 (Ref:737891)   #6
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esorniloc should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Surely Renault would build the engine?
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Old 2 Oct 2003, 12:14 (Ref:737897)   #7
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flor should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridflor should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
didn't they want to use a v10 judd?
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Old 2 Oct 2003, 15:16 (Ref:738140)   #8
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Well technically the Zytek engine they use is based on a Judd unit from the early 90's in F3000.

I think a V10 makes more sence, to make it closer to F1.
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Old 3 Oct 2003, 06:24 (Ref:738831)   #9
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climb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridclimb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The main difference between F2 and F300 was competition among different chassis and engines.
Switching from a mono-make to another mono-make wopuldn't sound as the radical change that present situation needs, IMO
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Old 3 Oct 2003, 07:28 (Ref:738897)   #10
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I would like to see F2 regulations similar to F3. Then chassis builders like Dallara, Tatuus, Lola etc all could have a go. V8 Engines could come from Merc, Audi Opel, etc (Like the DTM regs). To me the most interesting series are the ones where there is competition not only between drivers and teams but also between the manufacturers. The problem to solve is how to achieve this and at the same time keep the costs under control.
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Old 3 Oct 2003, 07:43 (Ref:738918)   #11
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Rob29 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridRob29 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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The problem to solve is how to achieve this and at the same time keep the costs under control.
Exactly.No one can afford a technology war,with costs approaching that for a NASA space program.As far as the general public ( including myself) are concerned we just want to see racing,only place where rival manufacturers are relevant is touring cars where people can identify with their own motor.Rules need to be framed to make the cars more difficult to drive so the best drivers stand out.Front engines/ No wings ,narrow tyres?
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Old 3 Oct 2003, 15:59 (Ref:739515)   #12
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Get some chassis rivalry, aren't we all bored with One-Make stuff. The great days of real F2, and F3,were when there were 4-5 makes fighting, eg March/Ralt/Martini/Lola/Chevron etc etc. I know this was a while ago, and these firms don't exist anymore, but if you set a basic spec, then leave the manufacturers to come up with rival designs that breeds engineers/designers as well as drivers. I know I'm a dinosaur, but they were much more interesting times all round than todays rubbish !
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Old 3 Oct 2003, 16:08 (Ref:739529)   #13
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Mackmot should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
They did this in F3000 in the early 90s as well!!
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Old 3 Oct 2003, 16:34 (Ref:739552)   #14
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Get some chassis rivalry, aren't we all bored with One-Make stuff. The great days of real F2, and F3,were when there were 4-5 makes fighting, eg March/Ralt/Martini/Lola/Chevron etc etc. I know this was a while ago, and these firms don't exist anymore, but if you set a basic spec, then leave the manufacturers to come up with rival designs that breeds engineers/designers as well as drivers. I know I'm a dinosaur, but they were much more interesting times all round than todays rubbish !
I am a dinosaur too. As it has been many times said, "from the times when racing was clean and sex was dirty."

in any case, if the reborn Formula 2 becomes a single-chassis series, Lola is going to spit fire to get the deal. They have experienced a very significant drop of income and Martin Birrane is getting impatient.

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Old 3 Oct 2003, 22:05 (Ref:739870)   #15
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Perhapps they could have a spec engine, tyres and then make it open on chassis.

At least a spec engine will keep the costs low and keep out of the traction control argument.
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Old 7 Oct 2003, 12:38 (Ref:742943)   #16
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climb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridclimb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Couldn't they do like in IRL?
Rivalry about chassis and (maybe) engines, but modifications possible (forgetting cosworth engine affair)only before the series starts off.
Further upgrades possible on following season.
It would be an intermediate formula, with the increased interest of make rivalry and cost control
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Old 7 Oct 2003, 12:40 (Ref:742948)   #17
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climb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridclimb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Moreover it has to be clear that in mono-make championships, controls over cheating are always weaker; when there is competition between makers, they keep an eye on one another, to protect their sales, so the series are surely cleaner.
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Old 7 Oct 2003, 13:11 (Ref:742998)   #18
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ghinzani should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridghinzani should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I heard that what was decided last week between interested parties such as Briatore was for a 600hp formula car to replace F3000 at GP's with performance just below F1. This would start on 2005 and another likely outcome is that Renault would close down Nissan world series to force those teams into F3000 - might just get full grids then! However they are talking budgets of a million dollars, so Renault are looking at ways of bringing this down to 600,000 by means of incemtives, prize money and trade backing - possibly thru Superfund the present world series backers. And if youve bought a Renault v6... tuff! go hillclimbing....
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Old 7 Oct 2003, 15:12 (Ref:743119)   #19
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climb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridclimb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Nissan WS is very succesful: why deleting it?
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Old 7 Oct 2003, 20:35 (Ref:743341)   #20
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ghinzani should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridghinzani should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Renault own Nissan basically. I'm sure the Worldseries organisers will either be involved in F2 or come up with an alternative. But presently you have F3000 - which Renault want to replace with their own formulae, Nissan Worldseries - owned by Renault and Formula Super Renault - again owned by Renault.
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Old 7 Oct 2003, 22:06 (Ref:743423)   #21
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Renault v6 are looking likely - the cars are technologically advanced, getting better, gearing up to be a true step to F1, wouldn't you think? And Renault don't tend to mess about - if they want it, they throw all their not inconsiderable weight behind it. A 2-3 year program?

climb has a top point - one make series may not police their cars as well as open series.
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Old 8 Oct 2003, 06:47 (Ref:743667)   #22
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ghinzani should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridghinzani should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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one make series may not police their cars as well as open series.
You dont know how right you are!
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Old 8 Oct 2003, 08:26 (Ref:743756)   #23
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climb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridclimb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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climb has a top point - one make series may not police their cars as well as open series.
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Old 8 Oct 2003, 09:24 (Ref:743818)   #24
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I would like to see F2 regulations similar to F3. Then chassis builders like Dallara, Tatuus, Lola etc all could have a go. V8 Engines could come from Merc, Audi Opel, etc (Like the DTM regs). To me the most interesting series are the ones where there is competition not only between drivers and teams but also between the manufacturers. The problem to solve is how to achieve this and at the same time keep the costs under control.
Spot on. F3 should still be homologated engines and basically the exisiting regs (except the stupid ban on transverse boxes). It should be national series only, with contract tyres and engine management systems. It should be around 280 bhp. F2 should be the international version of that, with free engine management and tyres, and around 320 bhp. You don't need mega-bhp to get good intense racing, and that way manufacturers could amortise their investment across a worldwide market. If F2 follows the GP circus, tyre manufacturers involved in F1 would probably support F2 as well, and tyre development is a key area in driver training for F1. It would be possible to convert cars from F2 to F3 and back.

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