F1-1967 Today

[John Turner]

rbs, I'm hoping that Marcus M's response was tongue in cheek, given his follow up remarks. I cannot imagine the HSCC giving this even a second glance.

Like Simon, I have no problem with them being built per se, but the timing is most unfortunate, we have too much racing anyway, and it has nothing to do with historic racing. So, if they ever get beyond trackdays and there is enough of them to form a grid, I agree that they may be fun at a modern race meeting.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by John Turner

So, if they ever get beyond trackdays and there is enough of them to form a grid, I agree that they may be fun at a modern race meeting.

Maybe 750MC would be the place to race?

[kipper]

Whilst the cars look like they could be fun to watch if a sufficient number were to be sold (which is debatable given the current circumstances), then I do think a race series wouldn't be a bad idea. However, in my mind Historic races should be just that and therefore this potential race series should be included in other meetings. I'd agree with rbs in that racing alongside the SRGT Challenge would seem a good fit.

[Marcus Mussa]

Originally Posted by John Turner

rbs, I'm hoping that Marcus M's response was tongue in cheek, given his follow up remarks. I cannot imagine the HSCC giving this even a second glance.

Like Simon, I have no problem with them being built per se, but the timing is most unfortunate, we have too much racing anyway, and it has nothing to do with historic racing. So, if they ever get beyond trackdays and there is enough of them to form a grid, I agree that they may be fun at a modern race meeting.

Not tongue in cheek, I take very seriously anything that Delta says he is going to do. He is not the sort to mess about.

It looks like the FIA have openings for what they call Free Formula (appendix J, article 277) however being neither a lawyer nor a rocket scientist I am unable to make head or tail of it. Presumably if these cars want to race (rather than track test) they will have to comply. However if the builder were to make a deal with somebody who at the time built spaceframe F5000 or FA cars then he could build an exact replica and get the cars HTP's, in which case the HSCC would probably accept them. So the question is, what were the space frame FA cars built in 1967 or so? I think in 1967 FA existed but most of the cars racing were ex-F1 (ie 3 litre cars, usually the very first generation with Climax 4 engines). There was the Lola T142 but presumably Lola could built replicas themselves! Might need a Hewland gearbox however.

As I shall now be away for 3 weeks sunning myself in South Africa while you lot freeze I hope you can sort all this out if and when I get back.

All the best
Marcus

[John Turner]

All the cars are going to be to the same spec though Marcus, not based on any specific historic car but 'a classically styled racecar with modern , reliable , obtainable mechanic' so I don't think that your scenario applies here.

(Enjoy S.A; I must say this seems to be our coldest winter for some years!)

[duke_toaster]

I guess the option would either be a one make series or blagging their way in to something else (possibly non-historic) as a guest class.

[Marcus Mussa]

Originally Posted by John Turner

modern , reliable , obtainable mechanic'

Sounds just like Delta himself... not sure about the modern bit come to think of it.

He (the guy) is right in a way about racing being ruined by aerodynamics - these are really 5litre Formula Fords. Pretty lethal I should think.

Will try and send some news from SA but my mini computer had a heart attack when I tried to connect it to 10/10ths.

All the best
Marcus

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by John Turner

All the cars are going to be to the same spec though Marcus, not based on any specific historic car but 'a classically styled racecar with modern , reliable , obtainable mechanic' so I don't think that your scenario applies here.

Agreed; but if they were to offer alternative body shapes along the lines of say the Crossle then who knows?

[eamonn ledwidge]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

Agreed; but if they were to offer alternative body shapes along the lines of say the Crossle then who knows?

A moot point, but please remember that the current Crossle 9S has a direct lineage connection to the original one made in 1966 and is built at the same factory by Crossle Car Co Ltd.

[john ruston]

Here we go again.Can't wait for the Arch Motors bit.They are new cars.

[eamonn ledwidge]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Here we go again.Can't wait for the Arch Motors bit.They are new cars.

With respect, the chassis are built at the Crossle factory and there is no Arch Motors connection. Did I say anything re new or historic????????

[terence]

Originally Posted by eamonn ledwidge

A moot point, but please remember that the current Crossle 9S has a direct lineage connection to the original one made in 1966 and is built at the same factory by Crossle Car Co Ltd.

Using the time honoured methods/materials as well,no doubt.

[eamonn ledwidge]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Using the time honoured methods/materials as well,no doubt.

Don't think I said that either.

[john ruston]

I agree you didn't but history for some people tends to get muddled .When people mention built in same factory,direct line to a 1960's manufacturer it reminds some of us of the previous threads on here where people have used that as a basis of confirming the authenticity of new cars as old.Sorry to involve you in that line of thought as I assume these are marketed as new cars and should be raced as such.

[Peter Mallett]

I think we've strayed a bit here (no change there then ) but I believe Eamon's point was one of pride in that the new Crossle's are keeping a tradition (if I may use that word) going and maintaining a great racing name.

In connection with the proposed F1-1967 cars that tradition may be diluted if they used a Crossle body simply because these cars are totally new ground up recreations of a design/concept rather than a continuation of an original manufacturer.

Anyway there's no denying that if one could find somewhere to race them, they'd be great fun.

[john ruston]

Crossle were involved with some of the first continuation sports cars about four years ago which also included work by Terry the Heavy Tractor man in Essex.Will remember his surname later.

[john ruston]

Hoyle!

[eamonn ledwidge]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I think we've strayed a bit here (no change there then ) but I believe Eamon's point was one of pride in that the new Crossle's are keeping a tradition (if I may use that word) going and maintaining a great racing name.

In connection with the proposed F1-1967 cars that tradition may be diluted if they used a Crossle body simply because these cars are totally new ground up recreations of a design/concept rather than a continuation of an original manufacturer.

Precisely what I meant.

The Crossle 9S Continuation cars (both Clubman and HTP) are well catered for in the SRGT Challenge which flies under the 750MC flag. In my view this is the most appropriate class for Continuation cars.

The first of these continuation cars was built in 1987 and the current run commenced about 10/11 years ago. My understanding of the Maldon man's involvement was that he acted as a sales agent for a while about 5 years ago.

I studied the F1-1967 car in some detail at NEC show recently and it is an interesting, well engineered recreation. My only concerns would be that I cannot see where it might race or how it could become a commercial success in these difficult times.

[Peter Mallett]

Phew that was lucky!

[f1-67]

car has now run twice at mallory with no fault except overcooling - anyone interested in a test please get in touch via website , some footage here : http://www.f1-67.com/videos.html

[john ruston]

Assume this is Ad for a new car!

[zefarelly]

well new car sales are down again this month John

[john ruston]

If someone wants a Race car that can be used most weekends why not that real Irish job that is for sale on here.

[f1-67]

' What a waste of time and effort.Another pretend car for pretend races.It should be in the modern section as whats it got to do with Historics.A Hondola look alike .It's going to hard enough to keep proper Historic Racing series going without these Red Herring cars and series and that also applies to the so called new Chevron thing which is not the real Chevron co but the pretend one.Is that correct Chris.If you want a pretend car buy one of those fake/continuation cars which will allow you to race in Historics for some reason ,assuming they have slots for sale.Masters have released their programme today and they along with the other race operators will need all the cars they can grab for the existing series.At least back the people who have the balls to continue to run races when I would think it easier and cheaper to cut and run '

well what can i say - as the designer and builder of the car its so nice to blessed with such well thought and rational opinion , just for the record the car has been produced simply because the late 1960s cars , for me , represent the ultimate racecar era , i wanted , for my own sake to produce a modern version of a classic racecar as much as anything for the design challenge , i have in my garage what is as near to a 1967 f1 / f5000 car as i will ever get and it has been made pretty well single handedly , i am very proud and satisfied with what i have produced , i have never suggested that it runs with historics , if it were to ever run as series i would put it anywhere but historics if you represent the sort of close minded attitude that might exist there -

the car is intended to give the feel and thrill of that type of car reliably and will be available to the masses rather than some elitist few , already drivers from novice racers through to national champions have tried the car and found it very driveable and capable ( mallory 49 secs / 100 mph average with low revlimit and basic setup not too shabby for a brand new car ) and that experience would never have been possible for them with an original car -

i do not rely on the car for a business income , i might sell 1 , none or maybe more , who knows - the market as usual will decide , from my point of view it would be fantastic to have a grid in period colours , all identical and would make a great driving challenge but im certainly not naive enough to think it is going to happen either at all / overnight -

'Assume this is Ad for a new car!'

actually i was just continuing / updating the thread ( that i didnt start )

' If someone wants a Race car that can be used most weekends why not that real Irish job that is for sale on here. '

absolutely why not , original type cars will suit some and not others -thanks for pointing it out

if you havent got anything positive to say perhaps it would be better to say nothing at all ? -

[John Turner]

Welcome f1-67, and thank you for entering the lion's den and for your response; it's good to hear from the 'horse's mouth', as it were, and the thinking behind this new product. I guess we can understand that approach, and note the enthusiasm for the 1960's which is shared by many here. However, John is merely expressing a view to which he is entitled; one, which you will see, is shared by some others albeit, not so forcefully. You will also note a number of drivers in historic racing who would love to have a go in one of your cars, so it's a two way discussion. Although, historic racing is a broad church with widely differing views of what fits in that description, I doubt many would regard your venture as naturally fitting into it. I would imagine that they would be reassurred by the fact that there is no intention to try to race these in historic circles. However, as you rightly state, you did not start this thread. At a time when we are in recession and even before that there seemed to be a widespread view that there is too much racing already, it would be interesting to know if you have a particular target market. It does sound to me that this is a hobby turned possible commercial venture (I can identify very easily with that!) and I'm sure we wish you well in a this endeavour. As a another matter of interest, do you think that there is another forum on this is site in which this thread might better fit?