5 point harnesses

[Colin McKay]

I know this was discussed to death last year, but my reading of the BB suggests that we are going to have problems again with 5 point harnesses. (K) 2.1, only 3, 4 and 6 point seem to get a mention.

I thought that as we had tacit approval of 5 pointers last year that the BB would reflect this - does anyone know where we stand before I rush out and replace a perfectly good 12 month old harness?

[Tim Falce]

If you have a 5 point harness then you also have a 4 point harness as was discussed last year.

[tristancliffe]

Just hide the 5th bit under the seat, so the scrutineer only sees the 4?

[Paul D]

Ditto - that's what I'd do. Unless you're unfortunate enough to have the type where the crotch strap also has the buckle attached...

Having said that, in my experience, most scrutineers just want to know it's in date, to spec, and safe. I use a six-point, but it's very difficult to tell from above if the crotch strap goes to one or two points under the seat - and I've never noticed a scrutineer paying any particular attention to the point.

[Colin McKay]

There was a fair bit of trouble over this last year - my 5 point was picked up by scrutineers and when I offered to remove the crotch strap they said that wasn't acceptable as the harness was designed to have it in place. After some discussion they relented and it wasn't mentioned again but I know some other 10thers had the same problem at other circuits and there was some correspondence with the powers that be on the topic.

It's just that I had expected the BB to reflect the decisions made 'in the field' last year

[scrutineer]

The MSA did issue some information out in the scrutineers news after the problems last year to resolve this issue and although I dont believe they are right the outcome was that the reference to 'points' was not the points were it is attached to the car but the points in which is it in contact with the body of the driver. Typically a harness with 5 location points has 2 belts coming from the crutch strap thus giving you your 6 points of contact on the body.

[Colin McKay]

Err...... not sure I follow that. Are you saying that if there are 2 floor mounting points allowing 2 straps to connect into a single point on the buckle then that would be OK......or vice-versa? ie 2 belts from the buckle leading to a single point on the floor?

[scrutineer]

Originally Posted by Colin McKay

Err...... not sure I follow that. Are you saying that if there are 2 floor mounting points allowing 2 straps to connect into a single point on the buckle then that would be OK......or vice-versa? ie 2 belts from the buckle leading to a single point on the floor?

No I think you have the wrong end of the stick. Were the reg states 6 point it refers to how many points are in contact with the body (as in the human body not the body of the car). You cannot have any more than one belt mount attached to a single point (ie each belt mount must go to its own mounting point).

[Tim Falce]

I think we are all getting a bit mixed up in translation, my interpretation is

Six point has 6 attachments to the car
A five point has five straps and 5 attachments to the car, they both only have 5 connections to the buckle and all go to individual mounting points on the car. So what is the actual problem?

[Chris Y]

That's my understanding as well, but apparently the MSA have a different 'understanding'...

[phoenix]

Check here for the Official MSA view:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....7&postcount=85

[Colin McKay]

Now why couldn't they have paraphrased that in the BB?

[dereklola]

I am utterly shocked that 5 point belts are still being considered by anyone - officials, drivers, anyone.

There were pics circulated a year or so ago about what happens to one's anatomy when you have a severe frontal impact. Let's just say that it was the end of the male line in that family's heritage. Think about it. And please - just DON'T.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by dereklola

I am utterly shocked that 5 point belts are still being considered by anyone - officials, drivers, anyone.

There were pics circulated a year or so ago about what happens to one's anatomy when you have a severe frontal impact. Let's just say that it was the end of the male line in that family's heritage. Think about it. And please - just DON'T.

I can't see how a six point belt would be any less damaging.

[JimW]

I'm with dereklola on this. Surely "one each side" is, for the male, obviously both more comfortable and less likely to do damage?

Jim

[midgetman]

Yes, but I bet the 5-point is about 50p cheaper hence more popular Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face isn't quite the right analogy but it'll do.