Fire in Williams Garage - Page 2

TWRv12 · 14 May 2012, 00:57 (Ref:3074090)

Quote:

2012 Spanish Grand Prix
13/05/2012

Montmelo, May 13th - The FIA can confirm that a fire broke out in the Williams garage after the conclusion of the Spanish Grand Prix. The flames were quickly brought under control through the combined intervention of staff from Williams, Caterham and Force India, supported by the circuit fire services.

Thirty-one team members were seen by Circuit Medical Centre staff and all have been released, with the exception of seven who were transferred to a variety of local hospitals where they are receiving treatment.

The FIA is collaborating closely with the Spanish authorities investigating this incident and will be providing a further update as soon as more information becomes available.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre...ire-spain.aspx

**Bononi** · 14 May 2012, 02:07 (Ref:3074105)

I hope everyone is ok by now.

chrisjt1985 · 14 May 2012, 21:06 (Ref:3074574)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

I hope everyone is ok by now.

Latest reports are in and there is only one mechanic still in hospital, hoping to return to the UK for Wednesday. Both the FIA and Williams are launching an enquiry as to what happened. Hope this ends up improving more things for F1. It was only Saturday evening me and another Marshal were talking about garage fires and the fears if one would happen!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/18066927

TerryD · 15 May 2012, 11:23 (Ref:3074750)

Having watched the incident on 'youtube' thanks to the link in the posting I have one question. Where were the fire marshals? The only people I could see fighting the fire were team members who were not dressed to fight fires! They were very brave going into a fire in just polo shirts...

mini1400 · 15 May 2012, 11:32 (Ref:3074753)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryD

Having watched the incident on 'youtube' thanks to the link in the posting I have one question. Where were the fire marshals? The only people I could see fighting the fire were team members who were not dressed to fight fires! They were very brave going into a fire in just polo shirts...

The marshals would have presumably been stood down at the end of the days racing. AFAIK the fire started about 90 minutes after the last race.

wolfhound · 15 May 2012, 12:38 (Ref:3074780)

I would expect all the teams to have crew who are trained in fire fighting as they were essential in the days of refuelling, but it would be good housekeeping to keep their skills up to date.

One probable consequence of that fire is that some of the team's crew will stay in fire retardent clothing after the race to be ready deal with fire.

**bella** · 15 May 2012, 13:17 (Ref:3074799)

they are trained. if you look at some of the photos of the guys fighting the fire those are not the actions of first time extinguisher bandits, particularly the ones who were manning the hoses. they put it out. if they didn't know how to, it would have burned down the pit building.

what it's important to understand is that f1 is already tooled up to fight fires. there's already plenty of precautions taken in daily activities that you don't see or hear about in photos or on tv. you don't have to wear fireproofs all the time if you're handling the fuel responsibly and as such this was a freak accident that it seems didn't have anything to do with the way teams store or handle their fuel. they're not stupid and they have health and safety regs to dance to just like the rest of us. why do you think the caterham team uniform includes a hi-viz shirt for packup for example?

anyone who says otherwise hasn't been anywhere near f1 in person to see it in action.

JimW · 15 May 2012, 17:02 (Ref:3074894)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

. . . you don't have to wear fireproofs all the time if you're handling the fuel responsibly and as such this was a freak accident that it seems didn't have anything to do with the way teams store or handle their fuel.. . .

What? So you are saying that they were not handling the fuel responsibly? Or only when you are planning to have an accident should you bother with appropriate dress? Confused thinking here Bella.

Regards

Jim

**bella** · 15 May 2012, 19:49 (Ref:3074965)

not really, jim. i don't know how fuel handling has anything to do with the alleged cause of this, which was a spark from another piece of kit. that piece of kit is where the problem lies, not the fact an inherently flammable thing caught fire when exposed to a source of ignition. electrical equipment shouldn't create uncontrolled sparks. wearing fireproofs all the time wouldn't have stopped the fire happening. it might have meant some people came away without some serious burns, but there would have still been a fire.

TWRv12 · 16 May 2012, 10:10 (Ref:3075197)

Thought it was incredibly dumb of Sky to name a Williams team member who was dragged out of the fire with his legs on fire by a Sky camera man.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RznfekEqgQo

ECW Dan Selby · 16 May 2012, 10:19 (Ref:3075200)

In fairness, it was all so sudden that it's kind of difficult to prepare for a situation like that live on television.

Selby

**Born Racer** · 16 May 2012, 11:11 (Ref:3075222)

I thought Sky went into Sky News vulture mode by reporting on it like they report on other 'live' news. I felt it was rubbernecking on Sky's part to some extent. They could have gone off air when there was nothing more to say.

Peat · 16 May 2012, 11:17 (Ref:3075224)

As far as i am aware, they didn't stay on air past thier scheduled time.

TerryD · 16 May 2012, 16:00 (Ref:3075357)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

they are trained. if you look at some of the photos of the guys fighting the fire those are not the actions of first time extinguisher bandits, particularly the ones who were manning the hoses. they put it out. if they didn't know how to, it would have burned down the pit building.

You obviously know nothing about fighting a fire then!

chrisjt1985 · 16 May 2012, 21:34 (Ref:3075475)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryD

You obviously know nothing about fighting a fire then!

OK, ok, before this gets harsh, lets just remember that, whatever training they have (and I bet that's better then any workplace fire warden gets), everyone got out alive, most without injury, and the fire was under control within what can be considered a fast-time. Lets allow the FIA, and Williams to conduct their investigation, give recommendations as to what could have been done better, and enjoy what will hopefully be a very close race in Monaco in just over a week!

**bella** · 16 May 2012, 21:49 (Ref:3075481)

well put chris. interesting how terry seems to have seen every image and video there is to see and know about exactly what was done to stop the fire spreading.

i don't envy them trying to put together a full it and electrical garage setup in a week either, particularly since they'll still be working out what they have and haven't lost. setup at monaco is a day earlier than everywhere else so they have even less time. thankfully this year the two races aren't back to back.

in some ways for the guys who experienced it first hand monaco is just about the worst one to go to immediately afterwards - the garages are small, hot and claustraphobic and there's only really one escape route - out the front doors. the back is full of stacks of warm tyres and random bits of bodywork. hopefully everyone is ok with that contrast.

chrisjt1985 · 16 May 2012, 22:05 (Ref:3075490)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

well put chris. interesting how terry seems to have seen every image and video there is to see and know about exactly what was done to stop the fire spreading.

i don't envy them trying to put together a full it and electrical garage setup in a week either, particularly since they'll still be working out what they have and haven't lost. setup at monaco is a day earlier than everywhere else so they have even less time. thankfully this year the two races aren't back to back.

in some ways for the guys who experienced it first hand monaco is just about the worst one to go to immediately afterwards - the garages are small, hot and claustraphobic and there's only really one escape route - out the front doors. the back is full of stacks of warm tyres and random bits of bodywork. hopefully everyone is ok with that contrast.

I just say it as I see it, and I see it very simple. The only facts we have are there was a fire from the fuel area. The cause has not yet been determined. They put the fire out and no-one died. Unfortunately people were injured but it could have been so much worse. And who are we to bash Williams if they did get it wrong. That is down to the governing body and the local authorities in Spain.

I hadn't thought about how different the Monaco garages are! I'm sure some very clever people are already thinking about what escape routes they can make, but as you say, the front really is the only true possibility! Touch wood that we don't get a repeat for a very long time (if ever), but I get the feeling it is something new for the people building the track in Austin to think about, and I bet they come up with the best possible sprinkler system as a precaution.

wolfhound · 16 May 2012, 22:13 (Ref:3075497)

Sprinkler systems if they use water are probably not the best idea in a pit garage as the most common fires in them involve fuel, oil, electrics and plastics.

A plentiful supply of powder followed by foam is probably what you would need.

chrisjt1985 · 17 May 2012, 09:34 (Ref:3075612)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Sprinkler systems if they use water are probably not the best idea in a pit garage as the most common fires in them involve fuel, oil, electrics and plastics.

A plentiful supply of powder followed by foam is probably what you would need.

Very true. When I worked in a fast food restaurant (all of 10 years ago now!) we had a sprinkler system called Ansul. This was a liquid/foam sprinkler that smoothers the flame to put it out very quickly. It would work on both the Broiler (quite literally a gas fire which the burgers pulled through), and the fryers. I don't know if something like that could be adapted for a Motorsport garage but I don't see why not!

browney · 17 May 2012, 09:41 (Ref:3075620)

Why not water mist? This is used in engine rooms of ships/submarines, which I would have thought would provide some of the same challenges?

Greem · 17 May 2012, 09:50 (Ref:3075626)

I'll answer this more fully in a moment, but...

Why not FM200? It's a personnel safe fire quenching system used in IT datacentres the world over. It actually combines with the flame and cools the fire. The key with that sort of system though is that the space is enclosed, not with humungous great doors front (and sometimes back).

So, the more full answer: why not *any system*? Because of cost. It might come to pass now, with the benefit of hindsight - and let's all hope there are no knee-jerk reactions - that pit garages must have some form of fire suppression system, but that will raise circuit costs massively and will mean that those costs are passed on to clubs in circuit hire charges. All these systems need regular checks and maintenance, and it doesn't come cheap. Plus, if the systems are installed and they subsequently fail to suppress, retard or extinguish a serious fire because it's either too intense/is a material the system can't extinguish/the system fails, what then?

F1 can probably afford such costs, sure, but local and national racing clubs probably can't - or their drivers can't, at least.

We need to see what happened, how it happened, and why it happened before anybody "up high" starts proposing that circuits must install in-situ fire suppression. And if those proposals come to pass then some serious research needs doing first. A pit garage is most definitely not an analogous environment to a restaurant kitchen.

**Born Racer** · 17 May 2012, 11:36 (Ref:3075662)

Well done to everyone involved for getting that scary fire put out as soon as possible.

I believe Williams will be allowed a new chassis and engine under force majeure.

csirl · 17 May 2012, 12:29 (Ref:3075687)

Quote:

Originally Posted by browney

Why not water mist? This is used in engine rooms of ships/submarines, which I would have thought would provide some of the same challenges?

Water mist and high voltage electrical equipment dont mix well...........what about KERS?

JeremySmith · 17 May 2012, 13:13 (Ref:3075699)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryD

You obviously know nothing about fighting a fire then!

Rather harsh don't you think?. bella is around a lot of racing, I am sure she knows more than most of us about safety issues..

TerryD · 17 May 2012, 15:35 (Ref:3075757)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Rather harsh don't you think?. bella is around a lot of racing, I am sure she knows more than most of us about safety issues..

I stand by my first comment! Just because Bella has been around a lot of racing doesn't me she knows anything about fighting fires.
The Williams crew did a brilliant job of getting the fire under control!

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