Driver Respect

[Articus]

Driver Respect. Is there any?

Fernando Alonso was critical of Nico Rosberg in Bahrain...
But we all know that Nando was shoving Vettel off the road in that spectacular pass in Monza last season. Hypocritical? Or is it really just heat of the moment that causes drivers to push each other off.

[ECW Dan Selby]

'You MUSTA leaver the space!'



Selby

[Marbot]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFacWGBJ_cs

Says it all, really.

[andy666]

Originally Posted by Marbot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFacWGBJ_cs

Says it all, really.

Oh my god , thanks Marbot i have just wet myself !! I was expecting Alonso/Vettel or Alonso/Rosberg from a different camera angle and what do i get , SHADDUP A YER FACE Very good .

[Articus]

Any meaningful comments?

[Greem]

You only have to watch the way drivers react to each other at the end of a race to see that there is immense respect between them. What they say in public and what they really believe are two different things. They all play mind games.

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by Articus

Any meaningful comments?

Look at some of the infamous incidents over the last 20 years:
Schumacher / Hill
Schumacher / Villeneuve
Prost / Senna
Senna / Prost
Plus of course the tedious Alonso / Hamilton saga when they were teammates.

Can we really come to the conclusion that things are any worse now, seemingly based on two hard defensive moves by one driver in one race?

[ECW Dan Selby]

Yeh. I think the reason for not too many serious comments is there isn't a whole lot to debate.

It was a reaction to a move Fernando didn't like.

Selby

[bella]

there's 2 different types of respect at play here isn't there. there's respect for each other as drivers, and respect for their lives. the former depends on the driver and does it really join them in the cockpit?

one would hope the entire field has the latter, but does anyone think its importance has diminished since safety became more, er, safe?

[Born Racer]

I would say you see a lot of respect between the drivers. It's more noticeable now to me, and I wonder if it's because there are less mediocre drivers and they are all top notch (with the possible exception of Karthikeyan). There are a lot of TV cameras around so they are either playing up to the cameras or we see a lot more of that respect.

Bella, I would never say its importance has been diminished but there are certain driving techniques that are now commonplace such as swiping to the side, which wouldn't have been so commonplace in the past when it also happened to be more dangerous. I don't know if it can be assumed that the two are automatically connected, because certain drivers such as Schumacher innovated these things and they got copied by young drivers coming through karting.

I used to race karts and if I go back to it, I'm curious to know what the driving standards are like. I'm a bit concerned they won't be as good and therefore as enjoyable as when I was last racing (eleven years ago now).

[bella]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I would say you see a lot of respect between the drivers. It's more noticeable now to me, and I wonder if it's because there are less mediocre drivers and they are all top notch (with the possible exception of Karthikeyan). There are a lot of TV cameras around so they are either playing up to the cameras or we see a lot more of that respect.

i think we just have a concentrated media effort now - it wouldn't be news that drivers liked and respected each other as people and competitiors back in the day. think back to in particular the friendship between stewart and cevert as an example. now we have a media industry that turns any quote into a story, so if you're going to say you think someone is a muppet you'd better have a good reason and be prepared to deal with being asked about that opinion for the next 12 months in press conferences.

i think it's from the other way - a drivers reputation precedes him, particularly on the track in combat. someone with a slightly ummm wayward reputation for botched moves might get more space to have the accident on their own and run wide or brake late for example. if you see webber in your mirrors, you're going to have a different battle than you would with say, massa or hamilton.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by bella

if you see webber in your mirrors, you're going to have a different battle than you would with say, massa or hamilton.

I'm sure that I don't know what you mean?!

[bella]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I'm sure that I don't know what you mean?!

[safc_fan89]

If Alonso had wanted to force Vettel off the track at Monza, he'd have kept drifting over to the left a lot further than he did.

I do think he has a point. I've certainly noticed that the driving standards in GP2 are poor, and it seems to be moving over to F1 as the same drivers haven't been penalised for moving about in braking zones or forcing other cars off the track.

Having said that, considering the amount of on-track action we have now, there aren't that many collisions resulting in damage. The drivers should be commended for that.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I'm sure that I don't know what you mean?!

Originally Posted by bella

[Paradise City]

The sport is alot less dangerous now so the need for respect between the drivers has slipped. All respect is now is just an obstruction to the winners trophy.

[chunterer]

I think the respect between them is higher than ever. If a driver gets a bit over precious when another tries to pass it suggests that they almost fear them?

If anything, the out of car chumminess betw the top guys is getting a bit 'pukey' all the back slapping and 'great race guy' stuff. I mean the top guys even seemed pleased for Maldonado at the weekend when last year he was almost a pariah. It's like some weird form of gentleman's club!

We need a bit of proper needle back at the front to keep these guys sharp.

[werner]

Originally Posted by chunterer

I think the respect between them is higher than ever. If a driver gets a bit over precious when another tries to pass it suggests that they almost fear them?

If anything, the out of car chumminess betw the top guys is getting a bit 'pukey' all the back slapping and 'great race guy' stuff. I mean the top guys even seemed pleased for Maldonado at the weekend when last year he was almost a pariah. It's like some weird form of gentleman's club!

We need a bit of proper needle back at the front to keep these guys sharp.

Something like this?

This guy does the trick.

[JohnSSC]

If by "safer" we mean that accidents are less deadly, I would agree. However, the cars are much faster now, so in a sense the risks are increasing as the greater speed means that the forces at play in an accident are greater.
I would ask chunterer for some clarification - I think what you are saying is that there is less open enmity between drivers now than in the past. If I am interpreting that correctly I think the aforementioned cameras are a big reason for that. Drivers now are much more a part of the revenue-generation machine and have to "represent the brand" by being polished and professional.

I doubt that were Senna driving today that some of his antics would be viewed as a positive by any team principal.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

I would ask chunterer for some clarification - I think what you are saying is that there is less open enmity between drivers now than in the past. If I am interpreting that correctly I think the aforementioned cameras are a big reason for that. Drivers now are much more a part of the revenue-generation machine and have to "represent the brand" by being polished and professional.

I doubt that were Senna driving today that some of his antics would be viewed as a positive by any team principal.

Yes that is part of my thinking John, todays coporate machine makes all the top drivers into 'poster boys' by nature and therefore they are fully paid up members of the well oiled corporate entity, rather than simple racing teams that pay their wages.

Even the last big rumble 5 years ago at McLaren seemed almost contrived! But whilst I like seeing the banter between drivers, I while like to see genuine rivalry, I don't mean childish ignorance and insults but a good hard edged competitive spirit like we had between Jones and Piquet, Senna and Mansell, Stewart and Emmo, Schu and Hakkinen etc

There's nothing like that now, only Alonso and Hamilton gets close and even they are always back slapping these days!

[stripedcat]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Yes that is part of my thinking John, todays coporate machine makes all the top drivers into 'poster boys' by nature and therefore they are fully paid up members of the well oiled corporate entity, rather than simple racing teams that pay their wages.

Even the last big rumble 5 years ago at McLaren seemed almost contrived! But whilst I like seeing the banter between drivers, I while like to see genuine rivalry, I don't mean childish ignorance and insults but a good hard edged competitive spirit like we had between Jones and Piquet, Senna and Mansell, Stewart and Emmo, Schu and Hakkinen etc

There's nothing like that now, only Alonso and Hamilton gets close and even they are always back slapping these days!

Yeah, Alonso and Hamilton seem to have respect for one another now. Ironic, especially after their pairing at McLaren.

[Truenorth]

Originally Posted by werner

Something like this?

This guy does the trick.

Great clip Werner. thanks. Despite his Nascar yawnfest, jpm did have his day.

[Truenorth]

I prefer the image of the drivers throwing dinner buns at each other having had a little too much bubbly at the annual banquet to the prima donna media games played while denying having just rammed into another competitor.

I don't suppose we can condemn our racing heroes that heavily for being as guilty as the rest of the world in thinking each is the most important person on earth, and that each of their comments is sacrosanct.

To everything there is a season and I for one won't miss this winter of rampant individualism such that the common wealth is commonly forgotten.

[Born Racer]

I've been thinking about this quite a bit, but feel that a lot of the appearance of over-friendliness is down to the media's interpretation and rash assumptions of anything and everything when they have the temerity to say anything remotely considered outspoken. You know, the kind of thing: 'Schumacher slams Senna and labels him an idiot', and then the slightly more in-detail analysis of Schumy's woes detailing how 'the pressure is telling and he must be thinking about his future' and how 'his stance on Senna may seem an innocuous comment, but it actually reflects his large-scale frustrations with his own performances and as indicative of his own inability to see his downfall as the fault of anyone but himself and his lack of form'.

These may look like a real headline and comments from articles, but they are made up and show the kind of thing you might see. I didn't actually see such assumptions about Schumy on this occasion, but maybe I just avoid the right websites now.

So, although people often say it is due to sponsor commitments that drivers refuse to be drawn into controversial incidents and what appear to be spats, a lot of it is about the way things are so easily blown out of proportion.

The Hamilton VS Alonso in 2007 stuff was good. It was memorable and there was a bit of needle, although I believe there was always respect between the two drivers; that respect of their respective abilities possibly enhanced the needle, and time has enhanced their respect.

Look at this press conference: http://www.formula1.com/news/headlin...2/5/13373.html Marbot mentioned elsewhere they can be boring, but is it any surprise when drivers just want to crack on with the driving? Lewis used to be great for not denying his superlative confidence in his own abilities and showing boyish wide-eyed enthusiasm in 2007, but he had that beaten out of him by a media that saw him as arrogant. Now don't be surprised when he sticks to safe PR platitudes. And that goes for others too.