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13 Jun 2001, 08:54 (Ref:104679)
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#1 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,417
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Best Driver Never To Win Bathurst
Who do yo believe is the best driver Never to win Bathurst...
I personally think there is a few George Fury, Leo Geohgan, Alan Jones etc.. |
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13 Jun 2001, 09:16 (Ref:104690)
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#2 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,275
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That's easy - Fangio - but I guess that's not really what you mean
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13 Jun 2001, 09:33 (Ref:104695)
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#3 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,221
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You hit on it there... Leo Geoghegan, he would have to go very close to being the one.
But then again (as I'm reminded by the post mentioning the Daimler Dart), he did win (co-driving with Pete) the 6-hour race that preceded the current enduro in 1962. So, effectively, he has notched a win. The best driver who has won Bathurst I know quite well, and I doubt that any will guess it. Clues? He won it only once, but had fastest lap several times, his co-driver often did the damage and his most common co-driver was also a winner with someone else. It's funny thinking on this subject, for the drivers you think about who should have won mostly have done! Maybe not when they should have, though. Another 'best driver' who didn't win but did compete there (and Marshal's comment is very close to the mark!) was Stirling Moss. Whether Jack Brabham should be on the list of those who should have? I don't really know... Ah yes, here's one: Brian Muir. |
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13 Jun 2001, 10:30 (Ref:104709)
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#4 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 16
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I think it would be me.But I got pole once..........................
well you didn't say it had to be the 500/1000. |
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13 Jun 2001, 10:38 (Ref:104711)
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#5 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,417
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Another one would be Tim Schencken. Of course Tim is a legend in his own mind
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13 Jun 2001, 11:47 (Ref:104731)
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#6 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,221
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Nobody will believe this... another one on my list... a great driver, very good around Bathurst (once qualified a car for the late and great Paul Hawkins because he wasn't fast enough!)... Bill Brown.
Looked good, even in Hawko's hat! |
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13 Jun 2001, 11:50 (Ref:104733)
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#7 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 5,549
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Ray, are you suggesting Kevin Bartlett as the best driver who did win Bathurst. That's what I've deduced from your cryptic clues.
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13 Jun 2001, 12:09 (Ref:104745)
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#8 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,221
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No, not at all... though he has to be very high on the list. But I don't think he set many fastest laps, if any at all. KB ran all those years in Alfas, too, drove flat out all day, but nowhere near the V8 pace.
Another clue: His co-driver only ever won once. What about Roberto Ravaglia, by the way, he set the place alight for no wins... |
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13 Jun 2001, 12:21 (Ref:104749)
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#9 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,366
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Ray,
Can you narrow down the time period as the next clue? |
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13 Jun 2001, 12:34 (Ref:104753)
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#10 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 5,549
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His co-driver only ever won once, is that with your bloke or once more with someone else?
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13 Jun 2001, 12:36 (Ref:104755)
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#11 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 5,549
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I suggested KB because he was very good, he excelled in open wheelers (sure to put him in your good books) and he only won once (with Goss) and Goss only won once more (with Hahne).
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13 Jun 2001, 12:37 (Ref:104756)
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#12 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,221
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Why bother? Nobody will work it out... or will they?
Okay, between 1963 and 1982 I don't think he drove all those years. And he never once drove an open wheeler. I reckoned from 1963 to about 1972 he was the best Touring Car driver in Australia, with Pete Geoghegan knocking on the door to be nearly equal. Last edited by Ray Bell; 13 Jun 2001 at 12:40. |
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13 Jun 2001, 12:48 (Ref:104760)
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#13 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 5,549
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Why bother, because it's fun to solve crytic puzzles about an interesting topic.
OK, Norm Beechey never won Bathurst, Bob Jane won four times and so did Moffat, so of course they are all out. It's not Gibson because he raced open wheelers. It's not Bond or McPhee either, because their co-drivers didn't win with anyone else. Nor is it Goss, he won twice. I don't know if KB got any fastest laps but he had several poles. |
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13 Jun 2001, 13:27 (Ref:104776)
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#14 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,221
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Forget these lesser drivers... in fact, I'll send you some soap to wash your mouth out over some of them.
Why have you restricted your field to those who raced against Geoghegan in the Mustang? Another clue? He also drove the Improved Production car Pete Geoghegan had just sold. |
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13 Jun 2001, 20:08 (Ref:104879)
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#15 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,071
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Not too sure about past drivers from decades ago, but out of the current crop, I'd give my vote to Glenn Seton.
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13 Jun 2001, 22:32 (Ref:104921)
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#16 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,221
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Yes, I certainly should have thought of him...
Any more guesses about who I think was the best? I have to say it's a very close thing, Brock really eclipsed him later on... |
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13 Jun 2001, 23:16 (Ref:104929)
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#17 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 588
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I jumped on this thread thinking "I know exactly who should have won Bathurst, but has never made it"....Glenn Seton....then I started scrolling down, and thought, "oh gee" they have gone off again about drivers I have never heard of, I may as well press the back button, WHEN...YES...thank you DNQ
I am not the only one! Glenn Seton - no doubt about it. |
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13 Jun 2001, 23:26 (Ref:104931)
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#18 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,221
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I was also born too late... just imagine what it must have been like to see those pre-war cars and drivers in the flesh?
And to see a Bathurst with barbed-wire fences, patches in the roadway, no white lines at the edge and Holden S4s? Well, I did see them, and I've contributed a reasonable list of probable contenders: Leo Geoghegan (first mentioned by colinbond0 Brian Muir Bill Brown The other one that seems a probability has come from DNQ: Glenn Seton That's a fair crop, but there may be more... |
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14 Jun 2001, 02:28 (Ref:104952)
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#19 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 5,549
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I'd rather call Glenn Seton the best driver yet to win Bathurst than best driver never to win.
As for Ray's mysteryman and one time Bathurst winner, I'm just about stumped, what I've deduced from his clues has just about eliminated everyone. |
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14 Jun 2001, 02:35 (Ref:104957)
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#20 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 5,702
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I am also too young to remember most of these drivers. However, I have heard about them. Of the current crop, (I know they haven't been there often) Radisich and Ambrose (Marcos hasn't been there at all so I guess he doesn't qualify). The Rat should've won in '99, although I suppose these guys are also YET to win.
I reckon AJ is a contender too. Scott Pruett and Tommy Kendall as well. They qualifies for the category. |
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14 Jun 2001, 03:12 (Ref:104971)
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#21 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 9,208
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Wakefield
ok, onto Ray's cryptic clues...absolutely no idea He won it only once, but had fastest lap several times, his co-driver often did the damage and his most common co-driver was also a winner with someone else. OK, John French, KB, H. Firth, Jacky Ickx? Absolutely bugger if i know! 
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14 Jun 2001, 03:16 (Ref:104974)
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#22 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,221
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Not on a par with Moss or Brabham, I'm afraid...
There were some European tyros brought here in the seventies, who were they? Fitzpatrick and Ickx had wins, so they're not among them... Gerry Marshall ('fraid not), Derek Bell - yes, cousin Derek should be on the list - Roberto Businello? Did he come? George Fury Masahero (?) Hasemi (anyone who gets pole and fastest lap in a World title race should be on the list...) Derek Bell Doug Whiteford Many to choose from... |
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14 Jun 2001, 09:24 (Ref:105040)
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#23 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 57
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G'day Ray
I got a deer with no eyes regarding your mystery man , and although I am a Holden Nut 100%, I would love to see Glenn Seton win it and am sure he will in the next few years if he dont spit the dummy and give up first. |
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14 Jun 2001, 10:22 (Ref:105059)
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#24 | |
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Racer
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 128
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Ray, Could it be John Harvey?
I have to admit I almost cried when Seto's car stopped just short of his maiden win. Back then he was super quick and really deserved to win. |
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14 Jun 2001, 10:38 (Ref:105067)
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#25 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,366
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Redback,
Funny I have thought of this all day today while at work and I wondered about Harvey, but didn't know enough of his early years. He must have won with Brock? Or was that just Richards and Perkins with Harvey in the second car? I can't remember. I do think that Harvey was under rated and took care of the machinery unlike Brock. He was the brains behind the HDT road cars as well. Plus I believe he was quicker than Brock on many occassions, as were Perkins and Richards. |
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