The No. 2 sports car series?

[August]

Just wanted to poll this. WEC is the obvious No. 1 but what's the No. 2?

This feels like it's TUSC vs. Super GT. I feel inclined to pick TUSC. Daytona and Sebring are globally more recognizable than anything in Super GT, though I guess Super GT is bigger in Japan than TUSC is in the States. Yeah, TUSC is just a shadow of ALMS's heyday. Still, it has brilliant GT racing, maybe better than in the WEC.

Super GT's GT500, on the other hand, is the fastest sports car class after LMP1. So, in that sense Super GT beats TUSC. And the lead class with 15 cars quite evenly diveded between three manufacturers looks stronger than the TUSC P class where only Chevy has multiple full-time cars.

I also took ELMS and Blancpain into the poll if somebody wants to vote them, though I don't really have any arguments for ELMS. It has the weakest top class of these all (though ELMS P2 is probably better than WEC LMP2). And I like Blancpain's brand variety, though it's obviously not as important for the manufacturers as Super GT or TUSC are.

I don't vote yet, I wanna read some arguments first.

[Beryl]

#2 in what? Worldwide importance/recognition or personal preference? I don't care about the former so I voted based on the latter.

I myself prefer Super GT and BES over WEC even. More interesting venues, bigger grids with more possible winners does it for me. TUSC barely registers on my radar.

[Giba]

I voted for ELMS as that's the series I follow with the most interest after WEC

[Brake dust]

I prefer Blancpain. Like the variety. Understand Super GT is a great series but haven't been able to view much of the racing. No english broadcasts.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Brake dust

I prefer Blancpain. Like the variety. Understand Super GT is a great series but haven't been able to view much of the racing. No english broadcasts.

There are English broadcasts.

[TF110]

I like BES and SuperGT, but I prefer SuperGT with the multiclass.

[pach233]

I agree with Beryl in that it really depends on what you mean by #2. Are we rating based on driver talent, professionalism, variety and/or quality of cars, perceived prestige or purely quality of racing. I think you could argue for any of them depending on what you define the parameters as. Personally I was a huge ALMS fan but can barely stay interested in TUSC. Blancpain is great for what it is but a one "class" GT3 only series can only be so interesting. ELMS is also ok with some nice variety, but the lack of an all pro class and every race being the same length hurts it.

Overall, Super GT probably has the best racing and most interesting cars and schedule of the choices. Unfortunately, despite RLM doing a good job, the lack ambient sounds from the track and somebody "plugged in" on site takes away from the enjoyment of the series. I also don't know as many of the Japanese drivers so remembering who is who especially after drivers switching teams can be challenging.

For anyone interested in English broadcasts of Super GT this year, here are the links (all completely legal from Nismo's YT page)...

Round 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7egL7IOeYw
Round 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0piK3dLank
Round 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i4o6Kthkno
Round 4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9gHiu0shqA

[PorscheFanNo1]

SuperGT hasnt really cought my interest at all, watched a few races every now and then but the racing really isnt that interesting, its only cars that are somewhat interesting. Blancpain has great great racing, but its still "only" GT3 cars in the end. Voted TUSC in the end based on the races (Daytona, Sebring, Watkins Glen, Petit Le Mans) the GT LM class, and the good racing. If only they could get a proper top class it would be a no-brainer.

[Akrapovic]

My personal order:

WEC
Blancpain
ELMS
Super GT
TUSCC

Blancpain is a fantastic GT Series with so so many different teams and cars. ELMS is a close second. Super GT is a pretty brilliant series, and needs more European exposure (I watch the delayed Nismo steams). TUSCC, frankly is a mess. Can't stand the mix of arsed up prototypes, terrible officials, and TV coverage which was so poor it was basically unwatchable. Its only saviour is the fantastic schedule.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by PorscheFanNo1

SuperGT hasnt really cought my interest at all, watched a few races every now and then but the racing really isnt that interesting, its only cars that are somewhat interesting. Blancpain has great great racing, but its still "only" GT3 cars in the end. Voted TUSC in the end based on the races (Daytona, Sebring, Watkins Glen, Petit Le Mans) the GT LM class, and the good racing. If only they could get a proper top class it would be a no-brainer.

Racing is racing. I think once Super GT gets to Suzuka and Autopolis, the 'racing' will be better. But if you mean side by side and passing, Fuji on Sunday had plenty of that. I think it helps having familiarity with the tracks they race on as well. Thats something BES has with its European audience. But playing Gran Turismo or Forza or NFS, you see these Asian tracks and gain appreciation and know where overtakes are happening. That goes a long way.

[Ephaeton]

for me prototypes are a must, the #2 and #3 thus going to ELMS and TUSC, with there being no #4.

When throwing in super gt into the mix, why not add DTM as well, (same vibe for me personally).
When throwing blancpain into the mix, why not add at least ctscc, pwc, vln, btcc, (all gt-and-friends series etc) as well. Some people like GT-only as their sportscar food.

[Maverick248]

Blancpain for me because SRO created two fantastic GT championships gathering high level drivers and teams.

[MagVanisher]

For me, it's Super GT 'cause that series has a balance of technology and somewhat-close racing, something that neither DTM nor the IMSA Sportscar Championship would replicate that!

While I wanna see Blancpain, it seems that it's just GT3 cars.

[August]

Originally Posted by pach233

I agree with Beryl in that it really depends on what you mean by #2. Are we rating based on driver talent, professionalism, variety and/or quality of cars, perceived prestige or purely quality of racing. I think you could argue for any of them depending on what you define the parameters as. Personally I was a huge ALMS fan but can barely stay interested in TUSC. Blancpain is great for what it is but a one "class" GT3 only series can only be so interesting. ELMS is also ok with some nice variety, but the lack of an all pro class and every race being the same length hurts it.

Overall, Super GT probably has the best racing and most interesting cars and schedule of the choices. Unfortunately, despite RLM doing a good job, the lack ambient sounds from the track and somebody "plugged in" on site takes away from the enjoyment of the series. I also don't know as many of the Japanese drivers so remembering who is who especially after drivers switching teams can be challenging.

I mean this as a combination of driver talent, manufacturer involvement and level of technology, and prestige and recognition. And probably personal preferences affect, too. Whatever series you're following the most, it's easiest to see its strengths.

As for Super GT, I also have trouble to get into it. Maybe if I learned more about it, I'd appreciate it more.

Originally Posted by Ephaeton

for me prototypes are a must, the #2 and #3 thus going to ELMS and TUSC, with there being no #4.

When throwing in super gt into the mix, why not add DTM as well, (same vibe for me personally).
When throwing blancpain into the mix, why not add at least ctscc, pwc, vln, btcc, (all gt-and-friends series etc) as well. Some people like GT-only as their sportscar food.

GT500 almost counts as prototypes, their connection with road models is mostly visual and they're faster than any prototypes but LMP1.

I didn't include DTM because despite its similar technical regs to GT500, its roots are in touring car racing. And I included Blancpain as the only GT3 series as it's the obvious No. 1 within them.

[Brake dust]

Thanks for the links Pach233. Will check them out!

Unfortunately, despite RLM doing a good job, the lack ambient sounds from the track and somebody "plugged in" on site takes away from the enjoyment of the series.

I agree with this statement as well as it relates to broadcasts in general. Maybe its my equipment - but on some on-line events, the audio is poor or non existent. The variety of different engine notes are part of the excitement of sports cars - which is lost.

[carbon_titanium]

IMHO, super GT and BES formats are too different and can't be compared with more conventional multi class and multi specs formats like WEC, ELMS and TUSC...

let's say that n.2 for me is TUSC but just because there is a manufacturers involvment that basically it doesn't exist anymore in ELMS

[Matt]

Yall realize that GT500 cars are just as spec in construction as a DP or DTM car right? Chassis regulations are the same between GT500 and DTM, and many of the components(suspension, gearboxes, brakes, etc) are completely spec piece.

Racing still rules though, and that's really all that matters.

[BullMan]

Blancpain Endurance is probably number 2 right now. ALMS was number 2, due to having Sebring and PLM, but the merger has dropped them back to 3rd in front of ELMS.

[J Jay]

I voted for SGT because that's what *I* look forward to most after the WEC, but I don't think that's quite what the OP asked for. It all depends on how you define "second"...

The kicker for me is that none of the mentioned series fully tick the "technological development" box that I would look for first. GT500 does it more than the rest, but it's an odd mix of world-leading progress in some areas (most notably tyres) and closely guarded spec in others. But to their credit JAF make no bones about this and are clear that the racing comes first. Even then all of the series have their own BoP peculiarities so I can't differentiate here.

I'm also a big fan of multi-class racing, namely prototypes and GTs. If you asked me a couple of years ago I would have been very stringent about this being LMPs and GTs, but beggars can't be choosers and as long as there is a clear demarcation between GTs and the faster class(es) I'm all for it. Obviously this puts down Blancpain in my estimation but there's no great difference to me between TUSC, SGT & ELMS.

I suppose my vote should have gone to Blancpain for that most curious of things, prestige. TUSC deserves a mention here for having three of the sportscar's classic races - Daytona, Sebring and Petit - but the lustre has faded somewhat since the days of the ALMS. Besides that all of TUSC, ELMS & SGT are best known within sportscar circles, and not much outside of them (even with the Gran Turismo effect Super GT is still a niche within a niche). However when I talk to people who aren't hardcore motorsport fans and the subject of sportscars comes up, it's Blancpain that gets mentioned more than anything else apart from the WEC. It has the notability and seems to have garnered the most attention from "generic" petrolheads and non-fans alike and that's what I think the original question was hinting at.

[Deleted]

How can I answer to this when I don't know what's even my No 1 series Post WSC period I would say that the BPR/FIAGT was the king until the end of 98, then 99-10 it was clearly the ALMS, then for 2011 ILMC, but since then I haven't really got one preference, none incl the WEC really pass my criteria (though it is obviously the biggest and most important generally speaking right now but if this was about personal preference right). It's separate big events I look forward to nowadays

[August]

Originally Posted by J Jay

However when I talk to people who aren't hardcore motorsport fans and the subject of sportscars comes up, it's Blancpain that gets mentioned more than anything else apart from the WEC. It has the notability and seems to have garnered the most attention from "generic" petrolheads and non-fans alike and that's what I think the original question was hinting at.

That surely depends on the region. In Europe, Blancpain may well be the No. 2 (Isn't it on Eurosport?), only behind the WEC. In America, for many people Tudor may be above the WEC.

[Deleted]

When you look at the list none of the series here are exactly new even though they might look like so

- USCC morphed from ALMS (1999-2013) and Grand-Am (2000-2013), morphed from old IMSA series and USRRC/SCCA all the way since 1960's
- SGT transerred from JGTC (1993-)
- ELMS transferred from LMS/LMES (2004-) and it's previous attempts
- Blancpain alternatives morphed from FIA GT Series (2013), morphed from FIA GT1 World Championship (2010-2012), morphed from FIA GT Championship (1997-2009(-2010 GT2)) and FIA GT3 European Championship (2006-2012), morphed from BPR (1994-1997)

And then WEC obviously morphed out from ILMC, and the whole thing can be seen as the reboot of old WSC

So the existing fanbases of the previous series are likely to move in some percentage

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by August

That surely depends on the region. In Europe, Blancpain may well be the No. 2 (Isn't it on Eurosport?), only behind the WEC. In America, for many people Tudor may be above the WEC.

That's just it though, in my (admittedly limited) experience it hasn't depended on location. Blancpain seems to be more familiar/known (than TUSC/SGT/ELMS) to most people I've spoken to wherever they're from.

[Mechanic Z]

Originally Posted by Chiana

And then WEC obviously morphed out from ILMC, and the whole thing can be seen as the reboot of old WSC

I'd say that the WEC/ILMC owes far more to the ALMS than to the FIA World Championships of the past. Remember, the ILMC year in 2011 even featured Petit Le Mans with the ALMS, and the first official WEC race in 2012 was actually the ALMS season opener (Sebring). The whole championship is more in the style of the ALMS, although without quite the appeal (IMO) or the classic American tracks.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Mechanic Z

I'd say that the WEC/ILMC owes far more to the ALMS than to the FIA World Championships of the past. Remember, the ILMC year in 2011 even featured Petit Le Mans with the ALMS, and the first official WEC race in 2012 was actually the ALMS season opener (Sebring). The whole championship is more in the style of the ALMS, although without quite the appeal (IMO) or the classic American tracks.

I suppose so with ILMC, but I'd say WEC is more to the stiffer and less lenient style of LMS/LMES than to ALMS, with many similar ACO habits in places