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Old 5 Dec 2008, 07:46 (Ref:2347888)   #1
Down F0rce
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Down F0rce should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridDown F0rce should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridDown F0rce should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridDown F0rce should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Max's letter to the teams on the engine tender.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72325

So, the teams have three choices:

1. Sign up to the standard FIA Cosworth
2. Build their own engine identical to the FIA Cosworth.
3. Continue with their own engines, with the current parities still in place.

Seems like a reasonable compromise to me? Manifacturers can build their own engines, smaller teams can have the FIA Cosworth...
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Old 5 Dec 2008, 07:50 (Ref:2347891)   #2
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Dutton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridDutton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridDutton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridDutton should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
In the context of having a spec engine formula, this situation is certainly the best option. At least the teams can still run with their own designs, albeit performance limited. I read the parity comment to mean parity with the standard unit, as opposed to current relative parity between the present engines.

I guess it will drive the teams which continue with their own designs to focus on designing their engines on the basis of gaining superior fuel economy to the spec units? Since, theoretically, they are not going to be able to have anything that produces a mentionable performance advantage, working to use less fuel for the same performance would seem to be about the only worthwhile thing to do?

Last edited by Dutton; 5 Dec 2008 at 07:55.
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Old 5 Dec 2008, 07:53 (Ref:2347892)   #3
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I can see a can of worms though. Manufacturers can still retain their own present engine, but it's performance must not exceed that of the new Cosworth, there should be parity. As we know, there is always an unfair advantage - look at the engine freeze issue. How long before a manufacturer using it's own, finds a loophole somewhere where it meets the rules, but in reality has more power or reliability etc?
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Old 5 Dec 2008, 07:57 (Ref:2347896)   #4
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If the FIA decides a team's engine ends up with superior performance, then they'll just peg them back. They'll do whatever they want to make them have less performance. They could do this at any given point in the season, and remain consistent to their regulations.

There is no doubt, whatever happens, the events, whatsoever they are, will be proof of some grand FIA conspiracy. I have no doubt about that.
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Old 5 Dec 2008, 09:18 (Ref:2347954)   #5
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It is a can of worms.
Just what do they mean by parity, Even if two engines produce exactly he same maximum Power and torque there are a whole range of perfomance and package variables:
Economy: Distance between fuel stops or less weight to carry:
Driveabilty: The spread of torque over the rev range.
Weight: A lighter power unit gives more design freedom in placement for handling balance.
Package Size: (and shape) Remember how Ferrari's flat 12 was very powerfull but it was difficult to design a workable aero package around.
Accessory drives and placement etc.
Sorry Max you might be a good lawyer, but a good engineer will find loopholes quicker than you can close them.
Looks like F1 is going back to formula DFV and the "garageists". Will that keep a modern high tech world interested. Hope so because the departure of the major manufacturers will rob the formula of it's glamour and relevance to a large part of the audience.
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Old 5 Dec 2008, 09:27 (Ref:2347958)   #6
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The "current parities" I reckon would mean that Renault will not get their hoped for performance equalization.Very clever Max.
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Old 5 Dec 2008, 09:40 (Ref:2347969)   #7
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He has asked teams to sign up for the new Cosworth alternative by next Thursday.......6 days to make the decision?
Surely he is not for real.....
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Old 5 Dec 2008, 10:09 (Ref:2347999)   #8
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He has asked teams to sign up for the new Cosworth alternative by next Thursday.......6 days to make the decision?
Surely he is not for real.....
Cosworth can't hang around waiting to see if Renault really do want their current engine to go up against Ferrari's again.
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Old 5 Dec 2008, 10:26 (Ref:2348012)   #9
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Originally Posted by Oldtony
Looks like F1 is going back to formula DFV and the "garageists". Will that keep a modern high tech world interested. Hope so because the departure of the major manufacturers will rob the formula of it's glamour and relevance to a large part of the audience.
I think so - at least it looks like that could be the ultimate scenario.

Losing the manufacturers at some point was always inevitable - they were only ever going to stay in F1 as long as it suited their needs. They are not racers, they are businesses, and F1 is nothing more than a marketing strategy. So who will survive? The independants like Williams are probably in the best position ultimately, provided they have the funding. In the late '60's it wasn't unheard of to see grids of 13 or 14 cars; this situation may recur.

I don't believe losing the manufacturers will necessarily make F1 less relevant, and I think the sport was glamorous before the manufacturers came in and will continue to be once they have gone. The technical aspect, although appealing, isn't the reason most people watch F1 - it's the human aspect that attracts people, and that will remain.

So, a second era of the 'garagistes' may be imminent. A shame in many ways, but I'd rather have a Formula 1 grid of customer chassis' and engines than no Formula 1 grid at all.
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Old 5 Dec 2008, 10:33 (Ref:2348023)   #10
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I can only agree and have said this in the Honda thread, the problem lies in Bernie's contracts, particularly with the new circuits without a National racing heritage

Non auto sponsors are not going to be easy to find though and, sadly, lots of the staff in the oversized teams are going to lose their jobs
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Old 5 Dec 2008, 10:50 (Ref:2348033)   #11
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F1 is slowly dying and it's being reanimated into the Champ Car World Series. I can imagine 2010; Bridgestone Presents the Formula One World Championship Powered By Cosworth.
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Old 5 Dec 2008, 10:56 (Ref:2348039)   #12
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F1 is slowly dying and it's being reanimated into the Champ Car World Series. I can imagine 2010; Bridgestone Presents the Formula One World Championship Powered By Cosworth.
Or you could have no championship at all.

If something is done now as an interim measure,then maybe F1 can get back to it's usual 'just throw some money at it' ways in the not too distant future.
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Old 5 Dec 2008, 10:57 (Ref:2348042)   #13
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Perhaps I phrased my original post poorly. When I say the teams have a choice, the three above scenarios are not a case of "which of these will be the rules for 2010?", they are all options open to the teams. Some may (and will) choose to take option 3 and run their own engines, theirs will take option 1 and take the FIA Cosworth engine.

The standard engine is being offered as a choice, it is not mandatory. I think it's a fair compromise that will help the smaller teams keep on going and ensure F1 keeps its identity as the pinnacle of sport and technology... for those who can afford that is.
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Old 5 Dec 2008, 11:05 (Ref:2348052)   #14
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The standard engine is being offered as a choice, it is not mandatory.
Exactly right.

But the XR transmission will be,in all options,mandatory.

Max is throwing a life-line,they'd be fools to ignore it.
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Old 5 Dec 2008, 11:41 (Ref:2348093)   #15
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This is a good compromise that must be embraced by the teams for the future of the sport.
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