V8SC SUCCESS BALLAST

[davester]

How long will it be before success ballast weighs on the relentless reign of the FG.

Success Ballast makes sense because:
1) Stops runaway success destroying a category.
2) Simple to administer.
3) Doesn't discriminate against a particular make.

A parity system is in place, but the problem with the current system is that it can hurt uncompetitive teams of the targeted make, and is slow and clumsy to activate.

Success Ballast is instantly applied, applied only to those that need it (only podium attendees need apply), and gets quickly moved from car to car per event as required.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Success ballast is a shining example of everything i hate about modern commercial motor sport. The best car and driver and team should win and good luck to them!

Success ballast smacks of socialism. There is an inequity of wealth in this world, so should the government go around taking from the rich and giving to the poor? Well, if they do, then what's the incentive to work hard or be careful with your money when you can just sit on your arse and wait for the government to bring you free money?

The same thing would happen in the sport, what's the point of working harder or smarter to build a better car or risking your neck to get that extra km//h through the corners?

[peckstar]

i cant see any good reason for it

[Green Hornet]

So what is the point of winning if you are going to get penalised for it?

SUCCESS BALLAST SUCKS!!!

[Tourer]

Yep - success ballast sucks big hairy ones.

Totally against what it is all about. Supercars is a technical parity based series and while not all like that it does work. What it is not is a communist series where all are pulled down to the lowest common denominator.

There have been a number of people (journalists mainly) who have suggested success ballast in the past and the vast majority of pit lane completely disagree with the concept. I'm pretty sure that Supercars even did some fan surveys on it (amongst other things) a few years ago and it did not go down well.

So, fans don't like it, people who work in the series don't like it, team owners don't like it, the board don't like it - need I go on?

Success ballast is one of the reasons that I personally cannot take the so called World Touring Car Championship at all seriously - hate it.

[Pro Racer]

not really a fan of it.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

Success ballast smacks of socialism.

As evidenced by that most socialist of sports - horse racing.

I always thought the VRC stood for Victorian Revolutionary Council and not the Victorian Racing Club, damn Communists!

P.S. - I am also against success ballast.

[Senna05]

There was a series somehwere once that had success ballast applied AFTER 3 consecutive wins. It was moved after 2 races, and applied ONLY if 3 consecutive wins were attained.

This does somewhat mate some sense - technically, if we look at winnings and exposure, the team that wins continuously should stay at the top (HRT, 1996-2002, anyone?)

That said, I think it should be up to the other teams to try and be innovative, but if ballast is to be applied, I think this should be the formula.

[davester]

Success Ballast...used well in BTCC, DTM, WTC. Was used effectively to maintain manufacturer interest and equity in series where cost caps were impossible to police.

All of these series had manufacturer teams capable of operating on a different planet to others. When that happens, you know what happens to the other manufacturers.

In our own backyard, we have a new FG Falcon, which despite severe testing limitations (one single test day) has blown away the VE...and it hasn't hit its best chassis tune yet. It won both test days, and won all races in 2009 so far...do you not hear that parity train pulling into a station near you?

[Pro Racer]

the VE blew the BF to bits in the early stages of 07 too.

i'm surprised Simon Mac hasn't chucked his toys out of the pram yet crying parity. i'm a Holden fan but i think give it a while before cranking the parity argument up. 888 has had a strangle hold on Clipsal since the last 2 years and have traditionally been strong there before that. the GP was abit interesting but i will give it a few more rounds before i start arguing parity.

[racer69]

I'm with most here, the series is paritied enough without going even further and penalising success (that route was tried and failed with the reverse grids)

Originally Posted by davester

Success Ballast...used well in BTCC, DTM, WTC. Was used effectively to maintain manufacturer interest and equity in series where cost caps were impossible to police.

It is not used effectively in the WTCC. Each year the system has been modified, and you frequently hear the drivers going on about making the success ballast work for them throughout the championship ie..... not always racing to win, is this what we want?

I don't think the modern DTM uses success ballast, the only weight differences are between the latest cars, and the lighter year & two-year old cars. It was also success ballast and parity rules which led to Ford pulling out of the original incarnation of the DTM at the end of 1989, they didn't see the point in building a good car if it got reigned in....

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by davester

Success Ballast...used well in BTCC, DTM, WTC. Was used effectively to maintain manufacturer interest and equity in series where cost caps were impossible to police.

WTCC has dropped success ballast per se (as in adding it to the race winner). Instead, they have a system where the slower cars get their minimum weight reduced. This rather byzantine system of averaging laps of the best performers of that model, scaling them and whatnot is outlined on page twenty of the sporting regulations.

DTM has a system where the weights of different models and years (the DTM has some cars made that year, as well as 1 and 2 year old cars) get adjusted.

[bluesport]

I'm all for success ballast......I argued this a couple of years ago but it doesn't get any sympathy on this forum.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by davester

How long will it be before success ballast weighs on the relentless reign of the FG.

Success Ballast makes sense because:
1) Stops runaway success destroying a category.
2) Simple to administer.
3) Doesn't discriminate against a particular make.

A parity system is in place, but the problem with the current system is that it can hurt uncompetitive teams of the targeted make, and is slow and clumsy to activate.

Success Ballast is instantly applied, applied only to those that need it (only podium attendees need apply), and gets quickly moved from car to car per event as required.

Waste of time Dave, there is consistently proof that there is less than ONE second between the top 20 cars, point to another category anywhere in the world where the competitors are so close - there isn't one.

You are trying to fix something that isn't broken, if there were huge variations in lap times I would agree with you, but unfortunately there is no evidence to support what you are saying in the land of V8SC's.

The category for competiveness is fine just the way it is.

[Dasher]

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

Waste of time Dave, there is consistently proof that there is less than ONE second between the top 20 cars, point to another category anywhere in the world where the competitors are so close - there isn't one.

You are trying to fix something that isn't broken, if there were huge variations in lap times I would agree with you, but unfortunately there is no evidence to support what you are saying in the land of V8SC's.

The category for competitiveness is fine just the way it is.

No to success ballast

All success ballast does is make ordinary drivers and bad cars look better

[Peregrine]

Originally Posted by Pro Racer

i'm surprised Simon Mac hasn't chucked his toys out of the pram yet crying parity.

Simon would be a hypocrite given his confirmation of 100% parity between the VE and FG during the request for parity between VE vs BF now wouldn't he ?

Success ballast is a farce, "the other teams just have to work harder" as was the catchcry during Skaife's and then Ambrose's period of dominance.

[EBXR8]

Success Ballast Blows

The field is already close enough teams just have to either get their heads around setups or hope that the 888 flying pigs, and TW Red Rockets have a bad day.