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Old 9 Aug 2017, 22:07 (Ref:3758484)   #8176
TF110
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TF110 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTF110 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTF110 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTF110 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Their wec budget probably lies between teams like Force India and Williams. The new engines must be easy to get right if they don't increase the budget from that. I think if they do go to F1, they'll probably look to acquire/brand a team already there (like Toro Rosso) or just try their luck with engine supply.
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Old 9 Aug 2017, 22:27 (Ref:3758488)   #8177
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Their wec budget probably lies between teams like Force India and Williams. The new engines must be easy to get right if they don't increase the budget from that. I think if they do go to F1, they'll probably look to acquire/brand a team already there (like Toro Rosso) or just try their luck with engine supply.
After a few years and if they occupy a good position in the championship of constructors the budget is increased by the payment received by the teams of the FOM.
Also it is easier to get sponsors for Formula 1 than for the WEC.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/r...17-903197/amp/
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Old 10 Aug 2017, 11:10 (Ref:3758587)   #8178
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After a few years and if they occupy a good position in the championship of constructors the budget is increased by the payment received by the teams of the FOM.
Also it is easier to get sponsors for Formula 1 than for the WEC.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/r...17-903197/amp/
In terms of sponsorship in F1, why is it that the most of the cars have no sponsorship on their cars? Seems strange.

I believe Porsche will only supply engines - a revenue generator for the company with some Porsche logos on the cars. With the limits on testing in F1 - too big of a risk for Porsche to be a back marker on an international stage while they try to develop their car.
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Old 10 Aug 2017, 11:51 (Ref:3758601)   #8179
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In terms of sponsorship in F1, why is it that the most of the cars have no sponsorship on their cars? Seems strange.

I believe Porsche will only supply engines - a revenue generator for the company with some Porsche logos on the cars. With the limits on testing in F1 - too big of a risk for Porsche to be a back marker on an international stage while they try to develop their car.
Even MB have said the engine deals costs them money so the idea Porsche could jump in now and make money is kind of far fetched. F1's costs are insanely high and doubt a Porsche badge on the engine cover would get any team enough cash to cover the costs for the engine package in a season.
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Old 10 Aug 2017, 15:25 (Ref:3758632)   #8180
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Even MB have said the engine deals costs them money so the idea Porsche could jump in now and make money is kind of far fetched. F1's costs are insanely high and doubt a Porsche badge on the engine cover would get any team enough cash to cover the costs for the engine package in a season.
Porsche would have to score points and earn cash from the constructors' championship /TV pool money as far as I know to make back anything from F1.

Who would rent an untested Porsche engine? Even Honda looks better than a completely untried power plant.
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Old 10 Aug 2017, 16:02 (Ref:3758637)   #8181
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Porsche would have to score points and earn cash from the constructors' championship /TV pool money as far as I know to make back anything from F1.

Who would rent an untested Porsche engine? Even Honda looks better than a completely untried power plant.
Well it can't be worse than the Honda. Even if it blows up a lot, uses too much fuel and is underpowered, it's still equal with the Honda.
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Old 10 Aug 2017, 16:34 (Ref:3758643)   #8182
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Well it can't be worse than the Honda. Even if it blows up a lot, uses too much fuel and is underpowered, it's still equal with the Honda.
Don't forget the 1991 Footwork Arrows Porsche engine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsch...rt#Formula_One
One of the worst ever...

At the time (I had mates at Arrows) everyone was stunned by how bad it was.

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Old 10 Aug 2017, 19:58 (Ref:3758673)   #8183
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In terms of sponsorship in F1, why is it that the most of the cars have no sponsorship on their cars? Seems strange.
Ferrari - still Philip Morris/Marlboro, Mercedes - Petronas is the title sponsor, Red Bull - TAG Heuer, Williams - Martini.

Renault seems to have gone through the WEC-like "brand colors & identity" way and currently lacks a big sponsor.

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I believe Porsche will only supply engines - a revenue generator for the company with some Porsche logos on the cars. With the limits on testing in F1 - too big of a risk for Porsche to be a back marker on an international stage while they try to develop their car.
With current regulations and yearly price of the engines for customers, this is absolutely impossible. 2021 engines will be cheaper but 2-3 customer teams probably won't ever cover the development costs.
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Old 10 Aug 2017, 20:15 (Ref:3758676)   #8184
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Ferrari - still Philip Morris/Marlboro, Mercedes - Petronas is the title sponsor, Red Bull - TAG Heuer, Williams - Martini.

Renault seems to have gone through the WEC-like "brand colors & identity" way and currently lacks a big sponsor.


With current regulations and yearly price of the engines for customers, this is absolutely impossible. 2021 engines will be cheaper but 2-3 customer teams probably won't ever cover the development costs.
I'd argue Red Bull is the sponsor there with Tag-Heuer on as an associate and engine branding sponsor.

Renault has had that problem a while, the ING Renault was the last external sponsor I remember, Geneii were the owners, then Lotus (sister company branding in JPS colors) and back to Renault.
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Old 10 Aug 2017, 20:31 (Ref:3758678)   #8185
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I'd argue Red Bull is the sponsor there with Tag-Heuer on as an associate and engine branding sponsor.
Question was here about external sponsors. Red Bull is also the owner of the team(s). If it is the sponsor, then in the same way you could say Renault is the main sponsor of Renault F1 Team etc...
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Old 17 Aug 2017, 08:22 (Ref:3759896)   #8186
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Interview, Michael Steiner, Member of the Executive Board Research and Development at Porsche

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/moto...ent-14059.html
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Old 17 Aug 2017, 18:36 (Ref:3760010)   #8187
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Buncha pr driven questions and answers imo. Much like their decision to go to F-E. I don't think f1 is on the table. And then the answer about the wec's visibility is confusing too. F-E has an even worse viewership and attendance problem
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 04:03 (Ref:3761071)   #8188
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https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/v...-costs-943475/

I just have to keep shaking my head. VW Group companies pretty much direct the regulations in their current direction then decide to collectively spend a few hundred million dollars a year to race against each other when their Japanese competitors were looking at 8 figure budgets then complain it's too expensive. How can anyone believe the financial complaints of anyone that was spending five times what was necessary?
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 05:15 (Ref:3761075)   #8189
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It's called trying to win. Not to mention, as I've said many times previously, you have to factor in the ERS incentive (which Toyota benefited from as much as anyone, especially in '14 and this year/late last year) as well as the fact that these rules were originally supposed to expire at the end of last season. Trying to get to 8mj in three years time (Porsche did it in one) when Audi and TMG were barely pulling 3.5MJ in 2013 (while spending significantly less money than Audi Sport were in '14-16 and TMG the past couple of years) IMO says a lot.

Mind you, without dieselgate, VAG would have at least Audi or Porsche there right now. This is all driven by public relations/saving face/court of public opinion, even when they're still making huge profits even while setting lawsuits, present and future. Technical overkill? Absolutely? Driven by instant gratification? Absolutely. But the ACO provided the conditions for it to happen because they rode that instant gratification train as much or more than anyone else.
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Old 23 Aug 2017, 06:19 (Ref:3761081)   #8190
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Spending to win? Against who? THEMSELVES.

Toyota had a sustainable plan and originally planned to use the TS040 for all 3 years before the update to the regulations. It was completely obsolete after one from Porsche and Audi trying to outspend each other and they had to delay the regulation change for a year so Toyota could afford to introduce their new powertrain early. As early as 2015 Toyota was asking for development restrictions to control cost and they had to jack up their budget just to stay in the game for 2016. Even the TS050 wasn't that competitive at most tracks, how much do you think they really needed to spend to beat Toyota for those three years?

No one should ever be outspending Toyota in the same series, let alone multiple times over.
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