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Old 2 Dec 2013, 00:11 (Ref:3339082)   #16
BullMan
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Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund View Post
Like taking GT3 cars and altering them?

-mike
I'm pretty sure all but a few "interesting" people here will agree that was very stupid as well.
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Old 2 Dec 2013, 18:35 (Ref:3339416)   #17
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Rodger, there is a difference. LMP1 and LMP2 were different classes, and the ACO never intended the LMP2s to win overall, unlike, perhaps, was the case with LMP675. Also, until they ballasted them up, the LMP2s and LMP1s were pretty darn close on lap times at most tracks.

As it is, they're trying to "equalize" P2 and DP right now. They've already given the DPs more power and downforce, adding to the DP's strength, and mitigating the P2s' strengths. They also added weight to the P2s, further eroding its particular performance advantages.

In addition, without courses like Sears Point, Lime Rock, Barber, Mid Ohio, and others, the schedule is more heavily weighted towards power than it was in 2006-08, and that applies to the schedules of both series.

The Audi R10 would have slaughtered the field at Daytona, and Kansas as well. It would have a much better chance of winning on the longer Belle Isle configuration. The R10 probably would have won at VIR. It would likely be the same story at Austin. Indianapolis would be less overwhelming than those other two rovals, but I'd still expect the power car to win there. The conclusion at Road America is obvious, unless the Audis fight each other and hand the win to somebody else, like in 2007. Just the one, long "straight" a lap was enough for the R10 at Mosport in 2007; only the transmission almost dying in the leading car allowed Penske to take the win there.

The tracks where I think the P2s would theoretically stand the best chance are Sebring, Laguna Seca, and Road Atlanta. The P2s will be further aided at Monterey, because the GTs are running separately, and therefore won't be out there, potentially breaking the P2's momentum. Belle Isle and Mosport probably won't treat them too badly either.

It's harder to say just what the balance at VIR will be like. Watkins Glen is another tricky one, because there are a number of high-speed corners, but the run out of "the Ninety", through the Esses, and on to the Innerloop is uphill. So is the run from "the Toe" to "the Heel" of "the Boot". That hands a significant advantage, at least in those stretches, to the cars with horsepower. on their side.

Austin is a new-build F1 circuit, and it tends to be the case that those don't have so many high-speed corners, unless you have a lot of downforce. So, again, power and torque will help here. It's also very difficult to negotiate traffic in the technical sections at Austin, which will further hinder the Prototypes, but moreso the P2s, because they're more a momentum car than the DPs.

I like the individual races, but I also like the championship, for giving a more empirical picture of who has done the best job over the course of the season. I loved CART, because you had to be proficient on road courses, street circuits, AND a range of ovals, in order to obtain the title.

Last edited by Purist; 2 Dec 2013 at 18:42.
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Old 2 Dec 2013, 19:13 (Ref:3339431)   #18
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CyberMotor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCyberMotor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCyberMotor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCyberMotor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Purist View Post
They've already given the DPs more power and downforce, adding to the DP's strength, and mitigating the P2s' strengths. They also added weight to the P2s, further eroding its particular performance advantages.
"mitigating" sounds so innocuous. 'Castrated' sounds more like it, IMO.
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Old 2 Dec 2013, 21:57 (Ref:3339517)   #19
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I hope/believe in 2017 we will see TUSC basically aligned with the ACO and run P (ACO P-2 eligible at the least), PC (P-3), GTLM (GT+) and GTD (GT). There will of course be the series distinct BoP differences.
That is not real likely unless the France boy wants to play a Panoz and brown-nose the ACO.

Not being governed by the ACO is at least part of the reason, although it is far more personality driven than that, GARRA and the Panoz/IMSA went in two directions.
Panoz was infatuated with LeMans and the France family has always been infatuated with itself.

That is why I am curious.
I want to see how this Dallas type drama plays out.
Sadly, I think road racing in the U.S. is still following Indy car racing into also ran status unless they stop making Mickey Mouse rules like CART and the IRL did and what is left still does.
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Old 2 Dec 2013, 22:07 (Ref:3339521)   #20
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HORNDAWG should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHORNDAWG should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHORNDAWG should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe View Post
That is not real likely unless the France boy wants to play a Panoz and brown-nose the ACO.

Not being governed by the ACO is at least part of the reason, although it is far more personality driven than that, GARRA and the Panoz/IMSA went in two directions.
Panoz was infatuated with LeMans and the France family has always been infatuated with itself.

That is why I am curious.
I want to see how this Dallas type drama plays out.
Sadly, I think road racing in the U.S. is still following Indy car racing into also ran status unless they stop making Mickey Mouse rules like CART and the IRL did and what is left still does.
Being aligned with the ACO and utilizing most of the same manufacturing/class rules is far from what you suggest!







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Old 5 Dec 2013, 18:25 (Ref:3340573)   #21
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I would hope they go to the GT convergence rules, with any grandfathering necessary to allow grid counts to survive transition and axe the prototype classes. The manufacturers with only a couple of exceptions, don't care for the DP or P2 classes, and the series is better served by one class with all the manufacturers, all the top drivers and teams. It's an easier sell for sponsors as well. The potential GT grid would be very diverse, and the overall spectacle would go up.

I realize I am speaking in the very small minority here, but one class, one set of popular rules, and then let the series grow.
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Old 6 Dec 2013, 17:06 (Ref:3340893)   #22
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I have always thought that arranging a rules set that allowed multiple classes the opportunity at overall victory (dependent upon track make-up, mostly) is a great idea. Have a GTP like class that allows for the manufacturer ROI in the way the cars look (think the porsche gt1) and have a GT class that allows for slightly faster speeds than they have now. This would allow teams that want to race a prototype that chance and gt teams to race gt cars. Go into it knowing that you may be racing against a car that is very different in make-up but similar speeds. Then for an am component, mandate an amateur driver in each car similar to what they have know. The fans will see a great race, the teams have more at stake.
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Old 6 Dec 2013, 20:41 (Ref:3341016)   #23
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Originally Posted by juicy sushi View Post
I would hope they go to the GT convergence rules, with any grandfathering necessary to allow grid counts to survive transition and axe the prototype classes. The manufacturers with only a couple of exceptions, don't care for the DP or P2 classes, and the series is better served by one class with all the manufacturers, all the top drivers and teams. It's an easier sell for sponsors as well. The potential GT grid would be very diverse, and the overall spectacle would go up.

I realize I am speaking in the very small minority here, but one class, one set of popular rules, and then let the series grow.
The classes are set through to the new rule set in 2017, period. The pursuit of this folly does nothing but set one up for a fall, and then we get to listen to the resultant whining! This will never be a GT only series, Oy vey.






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Old 7 Dec 2013, 04:45 (Ref:3341135)   #24
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I have always thought that arranging a rules set that allowed multiple classes the opportunity at overall victory (dependent upon track make-up, mostly) is a great idea. Have a GTP like class that allows for the manufacturer ROI in the way the cars look (think the porsche gt1) and have a GT class that allows for slightly faster speeds than they have now. This would allow teams that want to race a prototype that chance and gt teams to race gt cars. Go into it knowing that you may be racing against a car that is very different in make-up but similar speeds. Then for an am component, mandate an amateur driver in each car similar to what they have know. The fans will see a great race, the teams have more at stake.
I don't see how this would work, why the need for separate classes (if the prototypes and GT's are all to be capable of overall victory), how you could possibly develop a balanced rules set (unless that is not the objective), or - most importantly - when such a scheme has ever worked in the past.

Sports car racing already has enough challenges without needlessly trying to reinvent itself every few years.

Andy Flinn

Last edited by ACFlinn; 7 Dec 2013 at 04:56.
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Old 19 Sep 2014, 14:51 (Ref:3455057)   #25
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More info on 2017 Proto regs:
http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/10880...t-taking-shape
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Old 19 Sep 2014, 15:29 (Ref:3455077)   #26
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So

spec common tub
spec brakes
spec dampers
spec radiators
spec underbody
spec ECU
spec tires (USCC (assumed since Conti-Hoosier contract continues))

How exciting... ...

Last edited by Chiana; 19 Sep 2014 at 15:38.
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Old 19 Sep 2014, 15:31 (Ref:3455078)   #27
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MagVanisher should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridMagVanisher should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Going with the Global Racing Engine concept that Super GT (and DTM eventually), I doubt that will happen. I'll rather have variety than having the same engine specs.

Oh yeah, and having spec tires, ECU, and brakes? C'mon, they could do better than that!
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Old 19 Sep 2014, 15:33 (Ref:3455079)   #28
Pontlieue
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Pontlieue should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridPontlieue should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Oh dear, what a disappointment....

I was hoping for something similar to the current LMP2 coupés.

But
-manufacturer styling cues
-BoP
-spec components

sounds more like DP without tube frames.
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Old 19 Sep 2014, 15:35 (Ref:3455080)   #29
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MagVanisher should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridMagVanisher should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
No, it's more like DTM minus the DRS and other expensive stuff.
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Old 19 Sep 2014, 15:36 (Ref:3455081)   #30
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Even LMP3 sounds more exciting.
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