Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising Live Chat  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides MotorsportAds  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 28 Jul 2017, 07:45 (Ref:3754998)   #1
rdjones
Take That Fan
Veteran
 
rdjones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
England
Bradford, Yorkshire
Posts: 8,657
rdjones should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridrdjones should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridrdjones should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
LMP1 where do we go from here?

Following the news from Porsche this morning, the question has to be asked where do we go here?

I see from Sportscar365 that TMG are having an "emergency meeting", but I do think Toyota will stay as the technology they are using is being passed into there road cars.

The Peugeot rumor will not go away but there is no way they are going to be ready for 2018, so it might be 2019 before we see them.

What about BMW we know they are coming into GTE next year but where they meant to be building a P1 Hybrid as well for 2020 when the new regs come into force.

But I think for P1 to survive the old style "garagistes" need to come in a give the class some backbone. We know that Ginetta will coming out to play and there are the rumored cars from Dallara/SNP and Perrinn. But who else is out there?

I have just been looking at the entry for my first Le Mans in 2002 and there where private entries from Riley & Scott, Dome ,Lola , Panoz, Courage, Dallara and Ascari. It is interesting to see how times have changed.

So I go back to my original point LMP1 where do we go from here?
rdjones is offline  
__________________
There is only one way of life and thats your own ! ! !
Quote
Old 28 Jul 2017, 08:36 (Ref:3755009)   #2
wolfhound
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Ireland
Posts: 3,070
wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
It appears Toyota is going to review their program as their presence is based on Porsche being involved in LMP1.
http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130956

I suspect there might be a few of the top LMP2 teams looking at a P1 program giving them a decent chance of an overall victory at Le Mans even if Toyota stay. I cannot see any new manufacturers before 2019 at the earliest but more likely they could wait for the new P1 regs.
wolfhound is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Jul 2017, 08:41 (Ref:3755010)   #3
Simmi
Veteran
 
Simmi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United Kingdom
Posts: 7,385
Simmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
The cyclical nature of motorsport continues and I guess we're going back to the dark side of the moon.

Like in the early 00's I'm hopeful we'll see more privateer teams stepping up to fill the void. Toyota are left holding the can and the responsibility of holding up the championship almost. Certainly all those flyaway events seem less tenable so the ACO need to have a long, hard look in the mirror as to whether they let P1s back into the ELMS and things like that.
Simmi is offline  
__________________
For when your year runs from June to June - '11/'12/'13/'14/'15/'16/'17
Quote
Old 28 Jul 2017, 08:47 (Ref:3755013)   #4
Mike E
Veteran
 
Mike E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
Leeds
Posts: 1,833
Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!
Where LMP1, and a few other series, go from here is Formula E!

Audi, BMW, Citroen (DS), Jaguar, Mahindra, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche and Renault are, or will be, involved in the series. That's two of the three recent LMP1 manufacturers, and two of the four current F1 engine suppliers. Mercedes have canned their DTM program in favour of FE as well.

In the future, we won't need ear plugs.
Mike E is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Jul 2017, 08:48 (Ref:3755014)   #5
wolfhound
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Ireland
Posts: 3,070
wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
There are still a decent number of manufacturers in the GT ranks so that would justify a world program but it is down to how do the FIA and the ACO restructure the P1 class in the long term. In a way with no current manufacturer involvement it could allow a new path for manufacturers in P1.

I suspect that FE will have a problem down the road as manufacturers don't like losing and with 7 or 8 of them in FE I suspect there will be an arms race followed by an implosion when a bunch of them leave having spent fortunes to come last.
wolfhound is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Jul 2017, 08:53 (Ref:3755015)   #6
Alex Langheck
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 194
Alex Langheck should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Time for the ACO to be proactive - and sensible. Make P1 attractive for the privateers...
Are they capable of this?
Alex Langheck is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Jul 2017, 08:55 (Ref:3755016)   #7
BertMk2
Race Official
Veteran
 
BertMk2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
United Kingdom
Nr Maidstone, Kent
Posts: 8,369
BertMk2 has a real shot at the podium!BertMk2 has a real shot at the podium!BertMk2 has a real shot at the podium!BertMk2 has a real shot at the podium!BertMk2 has a real shot at the podium!
Well - this certainly Toyotas best shot at winning Le Mans. A race against themselves in LMP1 is one even they surely can't lose?
BertMk2 is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Jul 2017, 08:57 (Ref:3755017)   #8
jee
Rookie
 
Join Date: May 2014
Denmark
Posts: 67
jee should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
ACO needs to create a LMPe class for electric prototypes.
This is what the market demands, this is what the manufacturers demand.
jee is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Jul 2017, 09:13 (Ref:3755022)   #9
marcel82
Veteran
 
marcel82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
European Union
Beersel, Belgium
Posts: 834
marcel82 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
With Toyota having linked their presence to the presence of Porsche (or another manufacturer), I doubt they will stick around for long either. If they do pull out, Peugeot's entry is unlikely to me as well.

With several countries placing future bans on petrol and diesel, the manufacturers may just see Formula E as the best place to develop technologies for electric cars.

I'm thinking we will see a long stretch of LMP1-P running the WEC-show. It's not necessarily a bad thing to me, but there many people who are watching just because of the P1 manufacturers battles.

also, I agree that for Le Mans at least, there should be a DPi class. they run at Daytona, Sebring, and Petit Le Mans. that's some of the greatest endurance races there are, yet Le Mans snubs them?
marcel82 is offline  
__________________
Heaven is a checkered flag.
Quote
Old 28 Jul 2017, 10:19 (Ref:3755033)   #10
Gingers4Justice
Veteran
 
Gingers4Justice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
United Kingdom
The Big Smoke
Posts: 3,388
Gingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGingers4Justice will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Can I point out that though we may be on the wrong side of the cycle, the "dark" periods of our side of the sport has also produced some fabulous races, particularly at Le Mans.

The main difference will be there will be far fewer casual fans watching. They'll return with the manufacturers.
Gingers4Justice is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Jul 2017, 10:53 (Ref:3755046)   #11
Simmi
Veteran
 
Simmi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United Kingdom
Posts: 7,385
Simmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameSimmi will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Agreed. I still made calls to get my tickets sorted for 2018 knowing Porsche wouldn't be there. Le Mans will be fine, sportscar racing will continue. It's the WEC that is the interesting one.
Simmi is offline  
__________________
For when your year runs from June to June - '11/'12/'13/'14/'15/'16/'17
Quote
Old 28 Jul 2017, 11:24 (Ref:3755052)   #12
insane014
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 35
insane014 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by jee View Post
ACO needs to create a LMPe class for electric prototypes.
This is what the market demands, this is what the manufacturers demand.
That would be directly involved with road car development. Formula E is far from being ideal for EV development but from marketing perspective it is the only one. Problem WEC faces is the fast tracks for pure EV racing. They would require battery change every half an hour or so. I don't see Fuel Cell being any relevant in the future unfortunately so I don't think they can rely on that either, although Toyota would have loved that.

Anyway once Formula E gig is done and EV technology gets into adolescence WEC will be relevant again. All those manufacturers from FE will come to WEC to showcase their real products. FE will have a hard time moving from spec series completely. Manufacturers enjoy marketing benefits from spec series right now but it will be a whole different game when FE tries to open up major parts for development and I'm not sure FE is ready for that yet. But WEC will be.
insane014 is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Jul 2017, 11:51 (Ref:3755060)   #13
broadrun96
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 3,345
broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by insane014 View Post
FE will have a hard time moving from spec series completely. Manufacturers enjoy marketing benefits from spec series right now but it will be a whole different game when FE tries to open up major parts for development and I'm not sure FE is ready for that yet. But WEC will be.
Why would one series, built for smaller tracks and sprint races, fail where another would immediately be ready for success? Opening the parts up for development has been in the pipeline for years, hence the manufacturers now migrating over in preparation for new pieces being allowed. MB, Porsche, Audi all have time to work on their product and they know what the rules will be when they enter. BMW has been hanging around the Andretti crews to get a feel for it and working with the team in developing motors. I think they all know exactly what they are getting in to and know the marketing of the EVENT is what sells for them on the street, the innovation is what sells to the board.

Which do you think sells better to new fans, an afternoon event with everything from noon-6 pm in a city or a weekend event with gaps in the schedule and a commitment from the fan to travel out to the event? You can hate it all you want but honestly, they probably have ZERO interest in attracting old race fans. They are looking for the fans who weren't in to racing but might be attracted by something completely different.
broadrun96 is offline  
__________________
Retired, life is too short to not enjoy it and here we don't enjoy life.
Quote
Old 28 Jul 2017, 12:13 (Ref:3755064)   #14
Maelochs
Veteran
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,793
Maelochs is going for a new world record!Maelochs is going for a new world record!Maelochs is going for a new world record!Maelochs is going for a new world record!Maelochs is going for a new world record!Maelochs is going for a new world record!Maelochs is going for a new world record!Maelochs is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadrun96 View Post
I think they all know exactly what they are getting in to and know the marketing of the EVENT is what sells for them on the street, the innovation is what sells to the board.

Which do you think sells better to new fans, an afternoon event with everything from noon-6 pm in a city or a weekend event with gaps in the schedule and a commitment from the fan to travel out to the event? You can hate it all you want but honestly, they probably have ZERO interest in attracting old race fans. They are looking for the fans who weren't in to racing but might be attracted by something completely different.
Yup. Good insight.

We "old-school" fans have a view of how racing is, has been, and should be ... and we are a dying breed, literally.

Modern "fans" and potential fans have a completely different set of expectations .. and generally are less willing to commit time, attention, and energy (to anything.) They want immediate gratification, sensory overload, constant variety ... they need to have three data streams running all the time or they fall asleep.

A six-Hour race? Six minutes is an eternity to these people. These are people who want to go downtown, eat, shop, text, instagram their selfies, and in between be diverted by street musicians, people-watching, and oh, look, here come those cars going by again! Wow, that's like three time they have passed by here!

If FIA has a single member with a brain, s/he will insist on a few things: low cost to competitors, short events, short circuits, in-city circuits. Today's fans don't show a lot of signs of being thrilled by tech, except in how they can use it---they want to see results, they don't want to see the code.

They want spectacle ... they don't care about the relative efficiency of two different battery/motor packages, the tradeoffs between different systems .... this car has more downforce and less drag ... Dude, talking about all that stuff is a drag. Here, let me post this picture of a pizza slice on Facebook.

I don't often agree with Broadrun, but this time he is right.
Maelochs is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Jul 2017, 12:23 (Ref:3755066)   #15
broadrun96
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 3,345
broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!broadrun96 has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I don't often agree with Broadrun, but this time he is right.
broadrun96 is offline  
__________________
Retired, life is too short to not enjoy it and here we don't enjoy life.
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How about a LMP1 Pro & LMP1 Privateer class Holt Sportscar & GT Racing 35 6 Jun 2012 13:44
Joest Porsche LMP1 Megatron Sportscar & GT Racing 6 31 Oct 2003 09:28
2004 Riley & Scott LMP1???? Tim Northcutt Sportscar & GT Racing 8 12 Oct 2003 10:48
To clear up the 675/LMP2/LMP1 for next year... Megatron Sportscar & GT Racing 14 11 Aug 2003 21:38


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:12.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2016 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.