[WEC] Toyota LMP1 Discussion

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Adam43

The fastest average ever. Slower time than a 917 round a shorter circuit.

Yeah I think measuring the current circuits lap time and the overall average are the best ways of doing it. The circuit is so different from the 70s that if you compare lap times you might as well bring in the Bugatti circuit.

[TF110]

Toyota's 2017 TS050 is officially the fastest (quickest?) lmp1 ever

[Akrapovic]

Most certainly is. Hopefully an onboard of it gets posted by Toyota with telemetry.

[Akrapovic]

You know what I love the most about it? How efficiently it does it. Anyone can build a massive engine, use loads of energy and gets lots of power. There's no skill or knowledge in that anymore. Toyota was the fastest ever lap of Le Mans, and did it on a lot less fuel than they used even a few years ago.

I'm sure someone will have the fuel numbers available, but isn't the current car using about half the fuel of what the cars did pre-hybrid? Being fast is impressive. Being fast and using less energy to do it - that's incredible. We all love these cars because of the engineering of them, and the energy numbers are part of that.

[sssssssss]

there it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy91BcB8pRQ

and let's not forget, the car was on medium tires only.

i might be wrong, but i thought i saw porsche's 3:17 being done on hard tires.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

You know what I love the most about it? How efficiently it does it. Anyone can build a massive engine, use loads of energy and gets lots of power. There's no skill or knowledge in that anymore. Toyota was the fastest ever lap of Le Mans, and did it on a lot less fuel than they used even a few years ago.

I'm sure someone will have the fuel numbers available, but isn't the current car using about half the fuel of what the cars did pre-hybrid? Being fast is impressive. Being fast and using less energy to do it - that's incredible. We all love these cars because of the engineering of them, and the energy numbers are part of that.

Yes, I bet it used a hell of a lot less fuel than the 917 or 956 from those comparison laps did! Despite more braking.

[Articus]

If we look at the sector times, Kobayashi is 1.5 seconds up on anyone else in sector 3. Porsche matches Toyota in sector 1 and only half a second in sector 2.
To have the straightline speed and the performance in sector 3 lends itself to the blown diffuser theory swirling around....

[blankfile]

Isn't the theory that it's a double diffusor? A blown diffusor should be impossible.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by blankfile

Isn't the theory that it's a double diffusor? A blown diffusor should be impossible.

sorry yeah I mean some kind of double.

I've read the interviews and Rob leupen denies this.. But of course you don't admit to something like this, ever, as a team.

[Adam43]

For whatever reason it leads to the theory that the Toyota is a better car.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Adam43

For whatever reason it leads to the theory that the Toyota is a better car.

I'm trying to understand why the Toyota is better.

[Adam43]

I know. My point is that it could be better aero - for whatever reason - that more effeciently provides downforce for drag as Toyota have concentrated on Le Mans and got it sorted aero wise for two years now. Or it could be better mechanical grip so less aero is needed for the cornering speed. Or better engine/power deployment which allows more downforce, but still maintaining the top speed/acceleration needed.

Those characteristic could be explained by such things, but they could be explained by other aspects. So, I'm only certain enough to surmise that the Toyota is a better car.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I know. My point is that it could be better aero - for whatever reason - that more effeciently provides downforce for drag as Toyota have concentrated on Le Mans and got it sorted aero wise for two years now. Or it could be better mechanical grip so less aero is needed for the cornering speed. Or better engine/power deployment which allows more downforce, but still maintaining the top speed/acceleration needed.

Those characteristic could be explained by such things, but they could be explained by other aspects. So, I'm only certain enough to surmise that the Toyota is a better car.

No complaint here. I was just thinking it may be predominantly aero related even though Toyota only acknowledge powertrain gains.

With a set fuel flow rate, and 8MJ I just don't see how there could be a significant powertrain difference between the 2 brands.

[Rennen]

People refer to 'downforce'...do these Prototypes actually have much in the way of 'downforce'?

Yes they're aerodynamic, but their wings are hardly F1 'downforce'...surely these LMP's have 'Suckforce'...as when they take too much apex kerb they loose the seal and spin as we have seen in practice!

[tyronnezx]

How a hot race could compromise Toyota at Le Mans???


Hope this isnt true.

https://www.motorsport.com/lemans/ne...e-mans-919014/

[chernaudi]

I fear that Toyota might be screwed if the ACO enforce rule 10.10.3 of their technical regulations that state that unless a car has an AC system, you can only run 80 minute stints between driver changes if the ambient temp exceeds 32C for at least one hour and will be enforced for that hour.

[Akrapovic]

Forecast isn't set to reach that until Monday. Would only be for an hour or so at most if it does get enforced.

[Adam43]

How does that work? If they enforce it for, say, an hour does that mean that anyone who has driven in that hour can only do an 80 minute stint?

I also read they define the enforcement before the race? Is that true?

[bobec]

Whatever trickery Toyota is using (again ), have to say their LM package looks very impressive, both visually and performance-wise. They seem to have figured out a front-end concept a bit reminiscent of the original R15 (but also combining elements of the 2015 LM R18) and it's working really well. At least that's what I see.

It's impressive, because Audi abandoned the original R15 concept and I don't recall any LMP1 trying to use anything similar at the front end, and this year's TS050 is the closest I've seen.

Meanwhile, ByKolles is still trying to use the 2016 R18 concept, which I still think is not a good fit for Le Mans. Too bad there is no one for them to measure themselves against (except LMP2s)

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Adam43

How does that work? If they enforce it for, say, an hour does that mean that anyone who has driven in that hour can only do an 80 minute stint?

I also read they define the enforcement before the race? Is that true?

Yeah they define the times before the race. 2 hours before I think. So they'll say "between 3 and 6 local time, the rule is in place", and the max stint they can do is 80 minutes.

Toyota would probably just do 45 minute stints in that scenario, so it doesn't effect the overall race strategy. If you do 2 stints you need to stop 10 minutes early.

[Adam43]

Thanks.

I wonder why they chose 80 minutes.

[Irie]

Originally Posted by tyronnezx

How a hot race could compromise Toyota at Le Mans???


Hope this isnt true.

https://www.motorsport.com/lemans/ne...e-mans-919014/

Has Porsche an AC in the 919?

[Akrapovic]

Yeah the 919 has air con

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Rennen

People refer to 'downforce'...do these Prototypes actually have much in the way of 'downforce'?

Yes they're aerodynamic, but their wings are hardly F1 'downforce'...surely these LMP's have 'Suckforce'...as when they take too much apex kerb they loose the seal and spin as we have seen in practice!

They are both a downward force on the car. Downforce is generated by the entire body. 1.5-1.8 tons of downforce according to Tom K.

[kvenom]

Welp....