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Old 5 Jul 2012, 18:09 (Ref:3102516)   #726
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Pescarolo build the 03.
Rebellion has run LMP1's for years now.

BMS has done none of those.
I dont think it would matter to BMS ..... they have been around long enough now are are a top notch outfit .

They know all too well how to opperste proto machinery , 333SP for years .
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 18:23 (Ref:3102521)   #727
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BMS obtained the best results with ferrari and aston martin cars, they won at spa and did third at le mans in 2010 just because other stronger cars retired. It's chronicles, not opinions.
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 18:25 (Ref:3102522)   #728
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I dont think it would matter to BMS ..... they have been around long enough now are are a top notch outfit .

They know all too well how to opperste proto machinery , 333SP for years .
I'm not questioning the team. I know they are very good.
But my point is that teams with LMP1 experience is more favorable to obtain an eventual partnership with Porsche, than a team with no LMP experience.
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 18:28 (Ref:3102524)   #729
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BMS obtained the best results with ferrari and aston martin cars, they won at spa and did third at le mans in 2010 just because other stronger cars retired. It's chronicles, not opinions.
In an endurance race you can't really classify a car as "stronger" if it goes faster than anything else but fails to finish (or gets beset by niggling issues that drop it back out of contention). The strongest car in an endurance race is usually the one that wins.
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 18:38 (Ref:3102528)   #730
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i'll explain better what i mean for stronger: at le mans 2010 the risi 430 and the corvette were at least 2 seconds faster than the fastest #77 porsche. During the race the gap was still heavier... so nobody can't deny that the #77 even if deserved the victory, won just because the retirement of these 3 cars and not because of their performances. The same about the bms victory at spa, without problems of ferrari #2, audi #50 and bmw#79 the imsa and bms cars (with 3 official drivers per car, so the real BMS effort is really relative) would never finish first and second.
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 18:42 (Ref:3102529)   #731
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A victory is a victory, it doesn't matter how you get there.
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 18:54 (Ref:3102532)   #732
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i'll explain better what i mean for stronger: at le mans 2010 the risi 430 and the corvette were at least 2 seconds faster than the fastest #77 porsche. During the race the gap was still heavier... so nobody can't deny that the #77 even if deserved the victory, won just because the retirement of these 3 cars and not because of their performances. The same about the bms victory at spa, without problems of ferrari #2, audi #50 and bmw#79 the imsa and bms cars (with 3 official drivers per car, so the real BMS effort is really relative) would never finish first and second.
Mistakes are just behind the corner. Reliability is not an optional. Speed is basic. But luck is the yeast. All this things make a win. #77 was slower, but has always been there, ready to take the win. It was not in the last place. It was not out of the games. Was just there, behind the corner. Races are this, too.

This year AF has won in GTE, but they've been lucky, too. Corvette was leading, and was faster than Ferrari. Amato Ferrari, interviewed by Autosprint, has admitted Vettes were very fast, faster than Ferraris, and Ferrari was not gaining anything until the leading Corvette has lost a wheel. It's not me to say this, but Amato Ferrari. There's a big difference!
Luck is a basic part in the races. You can be fast, reliable, regular... but you must have luck by your side to gain the first place, at the end of the day.
I've never seen an unluck team to win a so important race...
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 19:03 (Ref:3102538)   #733
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BMS obtained the best results with ferrari and aston martin cars, they won at spa and did third at le mans in 2010 just because other stronger cars retired. It's chronicles, not opinions.
Chronicles... what???
In 2007 BMS has won GT2 class in Spa 24 hours with a Porsche.
In 2010 BMS has won (1st overall) in 24 hours of Spa with a Porsche.
Third in GT2 class in 2010 Le Mans, with a Porsche.
Second in GT2 class in 2010 Spa 24 hours, with Porsche.
Ehm... I don't think the best results have come only by Ferrari and Aston (both in the old GT1 championship).
Results make a car winning, not the lap times.
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 19:06 (Ref:3102539)   #734
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. The same about the bms victory at spa, without problems of ferrari #2, audi #50 and bmw#79 the imsa and bms cars (with 3 official drivers per car, so the real BMS effort is really relative) would never finish first and second.
BMS team was the less supported by manufacturer. There were only 3 official drivers, but the car was not the most developed RSR version.
AF was fully supported by Michelotto/Ferrari, and BMW were sustained by factory.
A big difference, imho.
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 19:17 (Ref:3102543)   #735
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Mistakes are just behind the corner. Reliability is not an optional. Speed is basic. But luck is the yeast. All this things make a win. #77 was slower, but has always been there, ready to take the win. It was not in the last place. It was not out of the games. Was just there, behind the corner. Races are this, too.

This year AF has won in GTE, but they've been lucky, too. Corvette was leading, and was faster than Ferrari. Amato Ferrari, interviewed by Autosprint, has admitted Vettes were very fast, faster than Ferraris, and Ferrari was not gaining anything until the leading Corvette has lost a wheel. It's not me to say this, but Amato Ferrari. There's a big difference!
Luck is a basic part in the races. You can be fast, reliable, regular... but you must have luck by your side to gain the first place, at the end of the day.
I've never seen an unluck team to win a so important race...
Agree 100%!
Eventhough he says he don't believe in Luck, Allan McNish is the most unlucky Le Mans winner ever.
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 19:36 (Ref:3102547)   #736
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the same old story... porsche fany boy see this way: "porsche is the best, no matter what"; porsche haters see this way: "porsche? pff". An objective point of view as i think to be is in the middle, porsche deserved the victory but can't be denied that porsche isn't the best car and luck helped them a lot.
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 19:52 (Ref:3102556)   #737
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the same old story... porsche fany boy see this way: "porsche is the best, no matter what"; porsche haters see this way: "porsche? pff". An objective point of view as i think to be is in the middle, porsche deserved the victory but can't be denied that porsche isn't the best car and luck helped them a lot.
An objective point of view, on here? What is the world coming to?
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 20:07 (Ref:3102565)   #738
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at least is what i think, more than once people think about me as a porsche hater... while in the reality i just speak the truth about the car and the performance and this doesn't like to porsche fanboys.
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 20:10 (Ref:3102566)   #739
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Just to clear up a few things, in 2010 BMS had a brand new RSR that was delivered just a few weeks before Le Mans and while not getting the level of factory support say Felbermayr had they had far more support than your average customer team, infact Porsche played a large role in putting the deal with BMS together for 2010.
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 21:42 (Ref:3102593)   #740
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at least is what i think, more than once people think about me as a porsche hater... while in the reality i just speak the truth about the car and the performance and this doesn't like to porsche fanboys.
Its Arakis in cognito !!!
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 21:55 (Ref:3102602)   #741
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Its Arakis in cognito !!!
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 22:43 (Ref:3102613)   #742
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Well, all you guy´s are talking about driver´s and stuff´s, but I would like to know if they will test the car later this year and in 2013 do selected round´s.

Will they release any pics of the car like Toyota did?

I Would Love to see in 2014, Audi vs Toyota vs Porsche vs Honda vs Nissan, that would be great isn´t it!!!!
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 22:57 (Ref:3102617)   #743
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The article suggests testing starting in early 2013.
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 23:11 (Ref:3102623)   #744
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Will a 2014 regulation car even be legal to race in 2013?
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 23:17 (Ref:3102627)   #745
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maybe in 2013 WEC, ACO will let porsche to run in a pair of races the 2014 lmp1 car as guest and not allowed to points. Also in fia gt 2009 the 2010 spec nissan gt-r and the matech ford GT1 were allowed to run.
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 23:40 (Ref:3102632)   #746
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Well, all you guy´s are talking about driver´s and stuff´s, but I would like to know if they will test the car later this year and in 2013 do selected round´s.

Will they release any pics of the car like Toyota did?

I Would Love to see in 2014, Audi vs Toyota vs Porsche vs Honda vs Nissan, that would be great isn´t it!!!!

what makes you think that Nissan and Honda will join the Top flight in 2014?
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 23:45 (Ref:3102633)   #747
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wirth is developing a coupè and maybe honda could support him to use this car in 2014, while there are 0 clues about a nissan entry.
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 23:46 (Ref:3102635)   #748
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maybe in 2013 WEC, ACO will let porsche to run in a pair of races the 2014 lmp1 car as guest and not allowed to points. Also in fia gt 2009 the 2010 spec nissan gt-r and the matech ford GT1 were allowed to run.
The problem is that while the Nissan and Ford GT1 weren't eglible for points (in case with Nissan also because the car was run by works Nismo which wasn't allowed in FIA GT), realistically they couldn't have won a race anyway because the 2010 specs were quite a bit slower than the 2009 specs in Corvette/Saleen/Maserati etc. 2014 Porsche LMP1 could potentially outpace the 2013 models, maybe... I haven't paid too much attention to the new regs I must say
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Old 5 Jul 2012, 23:48 (Ref:3102636)   #749
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it can happen, but the car will be however invisible for the classification.
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Old 6 Jul 2012, 00:02 (Ref:3102638)   #750
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it can happen, but the car will be however invisible for the classification.
No-one cares about that if it sees the chequered flag first, or completes most laps Even the best of the ACO press officers, or Carlton Kirby doing highlight voiceover for Eurosport cannot hide that fact if it finishes ahead of the Audi armada

As for not being allowed to points towards WEC, well that doesn't really matter either. This championship isn't so prestigious as ACO wants it to be quite yet (or maybe never). IMSA won GTE-AM at Spa and didn't score points but who cares, they still won one of the most important events of the year. No-one remembers who finished 3rd in GTE-AM points at the end of the season but you tend to remember these winners

Same for RLL (and Corvette) finishing ahead of AF Corse at Sebring, technically they were running in different classes and while ACO and WEC TV broadcasts tried to fool you to think that the ALMS guys were totally invisible and Ferraris were the actual heroes, nobody cared - RLL had taken the overall GT honours. Beretta and guys even addressed this on an interview

WEC point scoring system is a big dumb mess that is beyond confusing anyways, even after you take out the non-full season entrants you have different point classes inside classes and only certain teams are eglible for certain trophies, but of those certain teams only certain car is eglible for points scoring, but in certain events... and driver champ doesn't even take into account what class you're in, must look great in your driver's CV when you're listed in 34th or 67th place in 2012 WEC championship standings even if you won your sub class...

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