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Old 28 Sep 2013, 17:32 (Ref:3310451)   #1
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Minardi questions Vettel's Singapore superiority

It is becoming too obvious or what is your stand?
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Old 28 Sep 2013, 18:55 (Ref:3310477)   #2
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Can we have a transcript or link on the article, please
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Old 28 Sep 2013, 19:01 (Ref:3310481)   #3
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Can we have a transcript or link on the article, please
I did a quick search and found the article on Pitpass , but in my opinion it was not worth searching for .
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Old 28 Sep 2013, 20:19 (Ref:3310502)   #4
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Old 28 Sep 2013, 20:38 (Ref:3310505)   #5
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No links, thread will be closed.
Thread closed because the accusation is not true or because it is not worth debating?
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Old 28 Sep 2013, 20:42 (Ref:3310506)   #6
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Article from Pitpass


Many people have raised eyebrows over the same question... It is at the heart of team bosses discussions at the very moment but I would not believe this site is so pro RB that we are not welcomed to question it?


MOD
Please do not post full articles, all that was asked for was a link.
ScotsBrutesFan

Last edited by ScotsBrutesFan; 28 Sep 2013 at 21:20. Reason: Replaced article with Link.
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Old 28 Sep 2013, 21:03 (Ref:3310509)   #7
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I've often wondered if RB are cheating as other teams were with another German driver some years ago.
Is SV / RB that good, other drivers / teams that bad.
In the age of electronics / computers affecting just about everything SV can never be considered the greatest until he drives something that doesn't have any electronics to cheat with.
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Old 28 Sep 2013, 21:10 (Ref:3310510)   #8
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How do you tell the difference between cheating and doing a better job? Only pitpass has the answer.
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Old 28 Sep 2013, 21:21 (Ref:3310513)   #9
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Perhaps I should remove the 'cheat' word & put in 'electronic / computer interference'.
I wonder then if RB are doing a better job considering they don't / wont with their no 2 car.
I generally admire teams doing a 'better job' but that doesn't / rarely ends up with total dominance unless ???.
Only McClaren were this dominant with definitely the best 2 drivers in the world at that time, Williams & Ferrari were also nearly this dominant but all of those teams didn't dominate over a 4 year + period.

Part of the problem about dominance nowadays is the engines & drivetrains are so reliable - because of electronics.
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Old 28 Sep 2013, 21:28 (Ref:3310517)   #10
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There's no conspiracy here. We've seen over the years that Singapore is probably the track where there is the biggest difference between all of the cars and teammates. And Seb was clearly on it all weekend.
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Old 28 Sep 2013, 21:33 (Ref:3310518)   #11
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There's no conspiracy here. We've seen over the years that Singapore is probably the track where there is the biggest difference between all of the cars and teammates. And Seb was clearly on it all weekend.
I wasn't thinking of Singapore, I was thinking of this & the previous 3 seasons.
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Old 29 Sep 2013, 00:15 (Ref:3310553)   #12
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Wow, so F1 hates spec and yet if someone has a driving talent we immediately think because he is faster, drives it deeper into a corner, or on it earlier in exit he must be cheating??? Sorry but if this is what passes for journalism I'm glad most US papers ignore it, his comments have less backing than tabloid claims and I feel dumber for having read it.
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Old 29 Sep 2013, 01:00 (Ref:3310557)   #13
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In the age of electronics / computers affecting just about everything SV can never be considered the greatest until he drives something that doesn't have any electronics to cheat with.
When was the last title won with no electronic driver aids? When will the next one be won without them? i suppose you will ignore every title from god knows when in the past? why are you even following F1?
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Old 29 Sep 2013, 01:21 (Ref:3310559)   #14
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I've often wondered if RB are cheating as other teams were with another German driver some years ago.
Is SV / RB that good, other drivers / teams that bad.
In the age of electronics / computers affecting just about everything SV can never be considered the greatest until he drives something that doesn't have any electronics to cheat with.
So in your eyes then all of the 80s and 90s didn't happen in F1 and the last 'real' F1 cars were filmed in black and white? I don't think the cars they build now would be even close to drivable without any electronics to manage the engine and gearbox settings.

And how would you rate Senna, Prost, Schumaker, Hakkinen, Alonso and anyone else in the last 20 years?

Last edited by broadrun96; 29 Sep 2013 at 01:26.
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Old 29 Sep 2013, 01:34 (Ref:3310562)   #15
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Wow, so F1 hates spec and yet if someone has a driving talent we immediately think because he is faster, drives it deeper into a corner, or on it earlier in exit he must be cheating??? Sorry but if this is what passes for journalism I'm glad most US papers ignore it, his comments have less backing than tabloid claims and I feel dumber for having read it.
Well said broadrun96!

Minardi's comments are just bull dust from a Ferrari stooge.
McLaren provide the ECUs!

Pathetic!
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Old 29 Sep 2013, 01:38 (Ref:3310564)   #16
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So in your eyes then all of the 80s and 90s didn't happen in F1 and the last 'real' F1 cars were filmed in black and white? I don't think the cars they build now would be even close to drivable without any electronics to manage the engine and gearbox settings.
That would sort out the men from the boys. Like the powerful pre WW2 cars with 5" wide tyres. Bring it on and let's see some real racing! I'll buy a season ticket. They wouldn't need all this artificial tyre crap Pirelli ar having forced on them either. Can you imagine some real racing on merit of both the car and the driver? What a novel idea.

I am going to wander a bit off topic here. F1 is supposed to be the ultimate racing series. Does that imply Technical as in every gadget under the sun or racing as in the driver and car unaided have to work out how to win? I don't know whether that debate has ever been had in those terms. The question has so many holes in it that maybe it is unanswerable and too simplistic but I yearn for the days of a throttle cable and let the driver work out what to do about the wheel spin and If he gives it too much then the spin that follows. Then we have a racing series and talent has at least some chance of shining through.
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Old 29 Sep 2013, 02:04 (Ref:3310573)   #17
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That would sort out the men from the boys. Like the powerful pre WW2 cars with 5" wide tyres. Bring it on and let's see some real racing! I'll buy a season ticket. They wouldn't need all this artificial tyre crap Pirelli ar having forced on them either. Can you imagine some real racing on merit of both the car and the driver? What a novel idea.

I am going to wander a bit off topic here. F1 is supposed to be the ultimate racing series. Does that imply Technical as in every gadget under the sun or racing as in the driver and car unaided have to work out how to win? I don't know whether that debate has ever been had in those terms. The question has so many holes in it that maybe it is unanswerable and too simplistic but I yearn for the days of a throttle cable and let the driver work out what to do about the wheel spin and If he gives it too much then the spin that follows. Then we have a racing series and talent has at least some chance of shining through.
3 litre formula ford type car on slicks - perfect!

However FOCA will never go there because the driver will be the determining performance factor, and there goes the members' profit!
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Old 29 Sep 2013, 02:13 (Ref:3310574)   #18
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3 litre formula ford type car on slicks - perfect!

However FOCA will never go there because the driver will be the determining performance factor, and there goes the members' profit!
The cars must have a minimum of 850HP.
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Old 29 Sep 2013, 02:25 (Ref:3310578)   #19
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The cars must have a minimum of 850HP.
No problem, and a minimum weight no higher than 500 kg!

P.S. With a 3 litre racing engine 850 bhp should be easy enough!
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Old 29 Sep 2013, 07:07 (Ref:3310608)   #20
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To be fair, I have wondered how he can be so much faster than everyone, including his team mate. It does seem like a massive gap in terms of what we would normally see in F1.

I don't think RBR or Vettel have cheated. I'm just amazed that he can have that much of a difference over the rest of the field. Is it something that Mark doesn't have on his car at this stage or is it just Mark is not as good as Seb? Is it something to do with the settings that Vettel uses that makes him superior? I'm sure the driving has something to do with it but there is likely more to it without it being cheating.
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Old 29 Sep 2013, 09:56 (Ref:3310651)   #21
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To be fair, I have wondered how he can be so much faster than everyone, including his team mate. It does seem like a massive gap in terms of what we would normally see in F1.

I don't think RBR or Vettel have cheated. I'm just amazed that he can have that much of a difference over the rest of the field. Is it something that Mark doesn't have on his car at this stage or is it just Mark is not as good as Seb? Is it something to do with the settings that Vettel uses that makes him superior? I'm sure the driving has something to do with it but there is likely more to it without it being cheating.
Kind of reminiscent of Michael Schumacher don't you think?
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Old 29 Sep 2013, 10:40 (Ref:3310658)   #22
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To avoid double posting, I will just paste a link to my reply in another thread: http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....8&postcount=71

To summarize: it is unrealistic to think the other teams would not have picked up on it while an outside spectator(!) did.
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Old 29 Sep 2013, 10:57 (Ref:3310662)   #23
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To be fair, I have wondered how he can be so much faster than everyone, including his team mate. It does seem like a massive gap in terms of what we would normally see in F1.

I don't think RBR or Vettel have cheated. I'm just amazed that he can have that much of a difference over the rest of the field. Is it something that Mark doesn't have on his car at this stage or is it just Mark is not as good as Seb? Is it something to do with the settings that Vettel uses that makes him superior? I'm sure the driving has something to do with it but there is likely more to it without it being cheating.
Vettel did drive very well last weekend and was head and shoulders above everyone else, however the extent of the gap had to do with other things on the day too. Those behind held each other up as, on a number of occasions, the 'leader' of that pack was on worse tyres than those following him. This conspired to make it difficult for the others to nail it the way Vettel could.

Going back to what Giancarlo Minardi said for a minute, I note that no other driver or team has mentioned anything about the possibility of Vettel or RBR cheating, let alone protested them. Given that they would stand to gain most out of a Vettel/RBR exclusion it sorta puts Minardi's comments in context.
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Old 29 Sep 2013, 15:50 (Ref:3310734)   #24
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I think that one of the things that helped Vettel produce such an amasing performance at Singapore was the fact that the he had fuel to spare and was told to turn up his engine and make use of that performance.

Likewise with him running in clean air at the front at a circuit like Singapore did give some advantage for him.

I don't think it was just those two things though. I do think that it was an astonishing performance - probably the best performance of the season so far. The only one that sort of comes close for this season is Hamilton's at Hungary.
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Old 29 Sep 2013, 16:00 (Ref:3310737)   #25
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