BTCC - A right mix up?

[Redlake27]

I think the BTCC has a competitive advantage over the WTCC in allowing more bodywork freedom.

The trend in the car market is to MPV type shapes,and the traditional Mondeo/Laguna/Primera will disappear to make way for more practical cars. Look at the new Seat Toledo, for example. That ain't no touring car!!!

The BTCC allows 2 door cars and is therefore open to hot-hatch based cars, which is a growing segment..... it could be attractive to manufacturers not wanting to promote a declining 4 door model

[Wilbo]

Very good point.

[WebberForWDC]

Cynic, DTM cars aren't based on the real thing. They are carbon-fibre spaceframe sports-car things, like you mentioned and full non-production based race mechanicals. so the road car is totally irrelevant.

[touringcarnut]

Originally Posted by Redlake27

The BTCC allows 2 door cars and is therefore open to hot-hatch based cars, which is a growing segment..... it could be attractive to manufacturers not wanting to promote a declining 4 door model

And the key reason for entry is marketing the cars, aimed at 20-30ish I'd imagine

[kmchow]

Originally Posted by Cynic

I'm not sure about the TT but I thought the A4 came with permanent 4wd (I'll have to check this), so if they are running it in the DTM as a 2wd I'd like to know how.

Are you referring to the production A4? The production A4 is available with FWD or AWD. But I guess, you want to promote the brand and "car shape".

Originally Posted by Cynic

The original point was why should there be different styles of car in the BTCC? The answer is you get the bad old days of the nineties where the cars are so close to each other in performance that the factory teams spend ridiculous budgets in the search for an edge, and the privateer gets squeezed out. Variety is the key to keeping touring cars healthy, but the rules need to be balanced to allow a reasonably wide range of cars to compete.

Well, the '90-'93 Class 2 BTCC era was pretty good. Perhaps they should eliminate or heavily aerodynamics? But I thought S2000 was an "aero lite" series already?

Originally Posted by Cynic

Suppose Volvo wanted to race an estate car again. Should that be refused because it isn't a saloon? The more types of car the better IMO.

That would be cool! I'm guessing it would be the V50?

[touringlegend]

Estates can't race anymore - I'm pretty certain it's in the regulations.

The point Redlake27 made is spot on in my opinion. I was reading with interest that the manufacturers are worried that the family saloon could eventually die off. That could even mean they turn their sights for Touring Car racing back to the larger cars, although I think there'd need to be a change in the rules as a bigger car would be at a disadvantage to smaller hatches / coupes right away.

[Alfa Fan]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Estates can't race anymore - I'm pretty certain it's in the regulations.

Pretty sure they can. How can a car be defined as an "estate"? Could just be an enlongated hatchback.

[GTRMagic]

Would you call a Honda Civic an estate?

[kmchow]

Originally Posted by Cynic

Variety is the key to keeping touring cars healthy, but the rules need to be balanced to allow a reasonably wide range of cars to compete. Suppose Volvo wanted to race an estate car again. Should that be refused because it isn't a saloon? The more types of car the better IMO.

This is the first time I've heard about the rumor that Volvo wanted to race an estate again. If the BTCC and organizers are so open and wanting to be touring car friendly--letting hatchbacks, coupes and sedans race together. Why reasons do they have for discriminating against a saloon???

[touringlegend]

Volvo don't want to race an estate kmchow, I'm certain Cynic was being hypothetical.


Alfa fan, 99% sure someone asked Alan Gow whether estates could race and it was a 'no'. I'd assume an estate was an estate if it had a larger rear side window.

[runnyhunny]

I believe that the Volvo estate became impossible for 1995 because of the new aerodynamic regulations. After the nonsense from Alfa Romeo in 1994, new rules were introduced to govern racing-specific (aerodynamic) bodywork. Due to the wing size and positions involved, estates were effectively ruled out.

I also suspect that Volvo's 'learning year' taught them that an estate wasn't quite so hot in the handling department!

[touringlegend]

The 850 Estate did have a downforce advantage over it's rivals, now there's a surprise!

[Garry Holmes]

IMO the BTCC cars look ****, with their max power plastic wings, which are designed to offer little or no aerodynamic advantage - if they do nowt why have them - the WTCC cars look better.

[Neil Adams]

*yawn* so what if they look naff? (to you) the racing is fantastic and thats what counts

[danccooke]

having been on the bank for 50% or last years races and will be again this year, all i can say is roll on the new season, since last year i have purchased a Toledo, was in the market for a new car(well year old, would never buy new) and having seen them all year long they were in my mind, with regard to the market shift changing to the hatchback though, you couldn't be more correct, it was nearly £2000 cheaper to buy the Toledo than the smaller hatchback brother the Leon (maybe the new shape coming out had somthing do with that....) goes to show though that as far as marketing goes it still works, just need to get more folks spectating bigger gates bring more teams (catch 22 i know)

[Wilbo]

Looks like I have been prooved right.

[Hazard]

Originally Posted by Wilbo

Looks like I have been prooved right.

How so?

Your comment was about not liking the mixed bag of coupé's, and BTC vs S2000 spec cars etc. I don't see how that relates.

From the low grids we have, it just would not appear to be in the independant teams interests to continue to compete (since the sharp end is the same size as last year).

This is a knock on of course from lack of manufacturer support...if MG still backed (I know they can't now!) West Surrey, Honda kept up a full pack of Honda's keeping Dynamics mits off them, 'Collard Racing' outfits could still win the indie title, and more independant teams would compete.

As it is, anyone bringing a car along has no chance against the almighty finances behind Vauxhall & Seat - and perhaps even less chance against the technical 'works quality in an independant form' of Team Dynamics & WSR.

But what's that got to do with the cars being different shapes? The manufacturer's just want to throw a car on the circuit that will sell. We know why MG aren't in it, Daewoo/Chevrolet decided to WTCC was better...Renault has investments in single make series & F1...others are getting what they need out of the rallying championships.

[Wilbo]

Exactly! Super 2000 spec rules need to be adopted because manufacturers won't spend twice the budget to develop cars to go racing.

How many ex super BTCC spec cars do you see racing in the UK now compared to there production and super 2000 spec equivalents?

Most other countries have now adopted the super 2000 spec rules and as works cars filter through we will see more on our tracks, maybe even manufacturer or several more independant entries.

[JLD]

With the current entry for this year, and the grid size for today's races at Donington, I don't think that the BTCC can afford to be choosy about what type of car is allowed (saloon/hatch/coupe). What is needed is more entries, more cars on the grid, before people vote with their feet and walk away.