Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: FlagMarshal.com MarshalsGuide.com Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Racing Talk > Marshals Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 3 May 2005, 07:51 (Ref:1291809)   #1
Andrew Palmer
Veteran
 
Andrew Palmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
England
Peterborough
Posts: 546
Andrew Palmer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Treating Oil on a wet Track? (merged with 'Oil on the track')

Having yesterday been at Donnington on Post 4. The Fact are:

Second from last race cars set off on the green flag lap a Jaguar throws a rod through the engine block at Post 1 drives around to Post 6 on the outside line. Oil now laying on top of a wet track in places. Circuit staff turn out with a pressure washer and detergent to treat the oil. We Marshals treated the dry sections of track in the normal way. No problem at the start of the race slight traction problems for the second drives (I forgot to say it was a two drive race).

Last race no drives told about the oil at Redgate Gravel Trap becoming a car park with four cars including one roller (ended back on wheels).

Walking on the washed section of track at the end of the day was like walking on ice.

So how do you treat oil on a wet track?
Andrew Palmer is offline  
__________________
"Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak." Anon
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 07:56 (Ref:1291813)   #2
rescue dude
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
England
Posts: 860
rescue dude is a back marker
Sounds like they were using either too much detergent or not enough!!!!
It,s always a do you or don,t you thing treating a wet track but i wont use cement or the equivalent on a wet track cos you can make it worse. the pressure washer idea sounds good but you,ve got to get it right.
rescue dude is offline  
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 08:10 (Ref:1291823)   #3
EvilPumpkin
CCNA
Royalridge Computing
A LARGE Teapot
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Ireland
Posts: 10,691
EvilPumpkin is going for a new world record!EvilPumpkin is going for a new world record!EvilPumpkin is going for a new world record!EvilPumpkin is going for a new world record!EvilPumpkin is going for a new world record!EvilPumpkin is going for a new world record!EvilPumpkin is going for a new world record!EvilPumpkin is going for a new world record!
For bikes we use washing up liquid, a pressure washer and a hell of a lot of elbow grease - the trick is to ensure that the track is brushed into extinction!

Having said that, I think it also depends on the drainage on the track. Mondello slopes a fair bit, so we can usually persuade it to run into the gutters.

The best option has to be the oil "nappies" which pretty much work in all conditions - but they're expensive and no-one wants to use them
EvilPumpkin is offline  
__________________
If you feel that the circuit is not safe for racing, please go into the pits and retire.
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 11:30 (Ref:1291932)   #4
Dave Brand
Veteran
 
Dave Brand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
England
Hadfield, Derbyshire (UK)
Posts: 6,358
Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!
AFFF works very well!
Dave Brand is offline  
__________________
Doing an important job doesn't make you an important person.
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 18:21 (Ref:1292222)   #5
Jinx
Rookie
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 36
Jinx should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Oil Slicks

I was at Donington on monday, and it started raining. After it rained, one of the cars decided to drop oil around redgate, at least a foot wide in some places. As there was water on the track it was impossible to dress the oil with cement, but was too dangerous to race on so the circuit staff jet washed it with some detergent. It ended up being like a skating rink, the drivers in the 1st race after the spill were informed of the slippy track and adjusted there racing lines, the next set of drivers were not told so we there were about 5 cars in the gravel.
Any reccomendations on dressing oil in the wet as jet washing is clearly not the answer
Jinx is offline  
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 18:33 (Ref:1292236)   #6
Hepatic
Veteran
 
Hepatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
United Kingdom
Preston-ish
Posts: 2,968
Hepatic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridHepatic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68626

a thread has already been started!
Hepatic is offline  
__________________
...not with a bayonet through your neck you couldn’t.
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 18:34 (Ref:1292239)   #7
Dave Brand
Veteran
 
Dave Brand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
England
Hadfield, Derbyshire (UK)
Posts: 6,358
Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!
See:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68626
Dave Brand is offline  
__________________
Doing an important job doesn't make you an important person.
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 18:35 (Ref:1292242)   #8
Dave Brand
Veteran
 
Dave Brand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
England
Hadfield, Derbyshire (UK)
Posts: 6,358
Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hepatic
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68626

a thread has already been started!
...beat me to it.....just!
Dave Brand is offline  
__________________
Doing an important job doesn't make you an important person.
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 18:39 (Ref:1292250)   #9
Andrew Palmer
Veteran
 
Andrew Palmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
England
Peterborough
Posts: 546
Andrew Palmer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Poor Jinx, can not read or remember what was said 24 hours ago. To quote you "if some one started a thread I'll add to it". So I started it.




Will you be at Cadwell on Sunday?

Watch out trye wall
Andrew Palmer is offline  
__________________
"Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak." Anon
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 20:17 (Ref:1292303)   #10
Jinx
Rookie
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 36
Jinx should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I've slept since yesterday, and then couldn't find anything sorry
Don't know about cadwell at the minute
Jinx is offline  
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 20:21 (Ref:1292308)   #11
Jinx
Rookie
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 36
Jinx should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Have heard that Rockingham have some sort of special saw dust to mop up oil spills, does anyone know anything about that and would that work in the rain?
The track was dangerous at dono, the drivers kept insisting that there was still oil on the track a lot wider than the original slick
Jinx is offline  
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 21:50 (Ref:1292406)   #12
Yimkin
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 170
Yimkin should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinx
Have heard that Rockingham have some sort of special saw dust to mop up oil spills, does anyone know anything about that and would that work in the rain?
The track was dangerous at dono, the drivers kept insisting that there was still oil on the track a lot wider than the original slick
Speaking professionally as a geologist, vermiculite (type of clay) should work very well in this situation. As a driver, all I can say (race before that - Oldies But Goldies) it was flippin slippy when it rained - always is at Donington - I suspect that the rain brings down suspended AvGas from the takeoffs at East Midlands - I think it also brings it out of the tarmac - Mcleans was particularly bad this time (you can guess that I spun there ;-).

Chris
Yimkin is offline  
Quote
Old 3 May 2005, 21:57 (Ref:1292416)   #13
Woolley
Race Official
Veteran
 
Woolley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
England
Wolverhampton, England
Posts: 12,446
Woolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Merged threads together now.
Woolley is offline  
__________________
Bill Bryson: It is no longer permitted to be stupid and slow. You must choose one or the other.
Quote
Old 4 May 2005, 06:42 (Ref:1292573)   #14
simon drabble
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location:
Hampshire
Posts: 5,676
simon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I was in the race when the clouds opened and in the race the Etype deposited its guts. I got it wrong both times as I was first driver in the rain race (so got the full brunt of it) and second driver in the other race
in the rain it was quite strange Redgate and Old Hairpin were undriveable (I spun into the gravel at Redgate but fortunately managed to back it out) but up the other end of the track it wasnt too bad (unlike SRS qualys onthe Sunday morning when it was deeply unpleasant all the way round! breaking up hill and locking up is a novel experience!!)
during the SS race I took over for the second half and the track was becoming more scary by the lap! Redgate braking zone was awful and the chicane was pretty nasty but the rest wasnt too bad. Apart from the slight mishap on the pace car on sundays SRS race as a driver I thought it was very well marshalled all weekend - thanks!
simon drabble is offline  
Quote
Old 4 May 2005, 08:21 (Ref:1292630)   #15
Andrew Palmer
Veteran
 
Andrew Palmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
England
Peterborough
Posts: 546
Andrew Palmer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinx
Have heard that Rockingham have some sort of special saw dust to mop up oil spills, does anyone know anything about that and would that work in the rain?

Jinx I know about the Rockingham stuff it is proper oil dry as used in industry. I had forgotten about Rockingham using this stuff. Now if my memory is correct they used to keep two grades of oil dry, fine on all the post and coarse in the clean up vehicles. There used to be oil dry mats as well and a chemical degreaser. All these where a requirement for the Indy cars.

The main different between this type of oil treatment and our normal plaster or cement is you only apply a little of the oil dry leave it to work for a short time then sweep it up and shovel it away for disposal. As for use in the wet I know some even soak up water and other chemicals.

Now to show you why all the knowledge we use the same stuff at work. The down sides are cost, training and disposal.
Andrew Palmer is offline  
__________________
"Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak." Anon
Quote
Old 4 May 2005, 20:52 (Ref:1293191)   #16
Tracey
Racer
 
Tracey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
England
In front of a PC
Posts: 449
Tracey should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
YOu are correct - Rockingham did (and I assume, still do) have fine and coarse stuff. Not too sure how good it would be in the wet. it is a nightmare to use on a windy day as it is so fine it just blows away. Thinking back to being on a clean up crew at the first CART race, you chuck the stuff down like laying seed, dab it in with the brush, then use a leaf blower (like a hoover in reverse!) to blow it away.

IIRC, this stuff has a more common name - Fuller's Earth, or cat litter!
Tracey is offline  
__________________
You never stand in the same river twice
Quote
Old 4 May 2005, 21:40 (Ref:1293223)   #17
Sheila M
Veteran
 
Sheila M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
England
Burton-Upon-Trent
Posts: 2,578
Sheila M should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSheila M should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
When I was training as a Speed Clerk of the Course, I was unfortunate enough to be "in charge" (it was my last signature and I had to "run" the meeting) at a sprint when it rained whilst some Austin 7s were out on the track. (Austin 7s are notorious for leaking oil as you are probably all aware.) I had spotted a couple of them wiggling in the same spot and suspected that a previous vehicle had laid down a bit of oil. So I asked for a halt in the proceedings while I did a track inspection.

I reached the post where the very enthusiastic but terribly inexperienced marshals had reported an oil spill and leapt out of the course car in a very undignified and unladylike manner, screeching at the marshal clutching the cement bucket and brush "Don't even think about using that stuff").

"Too late", was the reply, "We've already dressed it".

Result - something resembling the Great Wall of China.

Fortunately, it was almost lunchtime, so I called a halt to the session, declared it to be a lunchbreak and got anyone and everyone out there in the rain, with buckets of water and brushes to clear away the resulting mess.

After a brief chat with the MSA Steward and the Clerk of the Course, I held a mandatory drivers briefing where they were all invited to walk the course to check on the conditions, the meeting continued and I got my final signature!
Sheila M is offline  
__________________
You win some, lose some, wreck some - Dale Earnhardt
Quote
Old 4 May 2005, 21:50 (Ref:1293233)   #18
Woolley
Race Official
Veteran
 
Woolley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
England
Wolverhampton, England
Posts: 12,446
Woolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
I remember one hill climb when we were mopping up burst adiator contents with sand. Then someone added cement while I wasn't looking...
Woolley is offline  
__________________
Bill Bryson: It is no longer permitted to be stupid and slow. You must choose one or the other.
Quote
Old 5 May 2005, 07:06 (Ref:1293427)   #19
EvilPumpkin
CCNA
Royalridge Computing
A LARGE Teapot
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Ireland
Posts: 10,691
EvilPumpkin is going for a new world record!EvilPumpkin is going for a new world record!EvilPumpkin is going for a new world record!EvilPumpkin is going for a new world record!EvilPumpkin is going for a new world record!EvilPumpkin is going for a new world record!EvilPumpkin is going for a new world record!EvilPumpkin is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woolley
I remember one hill climb when we were mopping up burst adiator contents with sand. Then someone added cement while I wasn't looking...
Ahhh so it was more of a resurface than a clean up? I've always felt that a bit of patio work (and maybe some decking) would look nice on most circuits......... By the way, if you can remember which marshals were responsible, will you send them over to do our back garden?
EvilPumpkin is offline  
__________________
If you feel that the circuit is not safe for racing, please go into the pits and retire.
Quote
Old 5 May 2005, 07:18 (Ref:1293437)   #20
deadsquirrel
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United Kingdom
Deepest Warwickshire
Posts: 1,261
deadsquirrel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the griddeadsquirrel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyRedButton
YOu are correct - Rockingham did (and I assume, still do) have fine and coarse stuff. Not too sure how good it would be in the wet. it is a nightmare to use on a windy day as it is so fine it just blows away. Thinking back to being on a clean up crew at the first CART race, you chuck the stuff down like laying seed, dab it in with the brush, then use a leaf blower (like a hoover in reverse!) to blow it away.

IIRC, this stuff has a more common name - Fuller's Earth, or cat litter!
RMS still do use the course and fine - very effective stuff. On a windy day, you break your back getting low enough to get any on the right spot!

You were on the first cleanup crew at CART - me too! Great event!
deadsquirrel is offline  
__________________
Everybody, sooner or later, sits down to a banquet of consequences. Robert Lous Stephenson
Quote
Old 6 May 2005, 12:55 (Ref:1294369)   #21
Woolley
Race Official
Veteran
 
Woolley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
England
Wolverhampton, England
Posts: 12,446
Woolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilPumpkin
Ahhh so it was more of a resurface than a clean up? I've always felt that a bit of patio work (and maybe some decking) would look nice on most circuits......... By the way, if you can remember which marshals were responsible, will you send them over to do our back garden?
Yes, I know exactly who they were! Did you know that anti-freeze makes a good plasticiser agent? That was something I learned that day.
Woolley is offline  
__________________
Bill Bryson: It is no longer permitted to be stupid and slow. You must choose one or the other.
Quote
Old 6 May 2005, 22:51 (Ref:1294736)   #22
mitzi dude
Racer
 
mitzi dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
New Zealand
New Zealand
Posts: 287
mitzi dude should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
At taupo N.Z. we use asort of a ground up bark substanse thats really good. soon as you put it on the tracks pretty much soaked up. amazing stuff.
mitzi dude is offline  
__________________
Mitzidude
Cheif Flag marshal.( Retired). is there life after flagging???? YES YES......there is..
Quote
Old 9 May 2005, 16:55 (Ref:1296820)   #23
Chigley
Veteran
 
Chigley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
England
Newbury, Berkshire
Posts: 1,350
Chigley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
For bikes we use washing up liquid, a pressure washer and a hell of a lot of elbow grease - the trick is to ensure that the track is brushed into extinction!
Those that were at Goodwood FOS a couple of years ago (SG included) will remember that we had a wide oil spill on line after the first corner. Liberal use of deteregent, exceedingly vigourous use of brooms to ensure that the oil was nuetralised then SG with the pressure washer and further sweeping to clear the emulsified oil worked a treat. It was time consuming but effective. There's no quick fix.
Chigley is offline  
__________________
Ian Chalmers, Maker of circuit flags.
Quote
Old 9 May 2005, 17:19 (Ref:1296845)   #24
Hepatic
Veteran
 
Hepatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
United Kingdom
Preston-ish
Posts: 2,968
Hepatic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridHepatic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chigley
There's no quick fix.
Except stopping the buggers dropping their guts in the first place!
Hepatic is offline  
__________________
...not with a bayonet through your neck you couldn’t.
Quote
Old 9 May 2005, 17:40 (Ref:1296873)   #25
deadsquirrel
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United Kingdom
Deepest Warwickshire
Posts: 1,261
deadsquirrel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the griddeadsquirrel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chigley
Those that were at Goodwood FOS a couple of years ago (SG included) will remember that we had a wide oil spill on line after the first corner. Liberal use of deteregent, exceedingly vigourous use of brooms to ensure that the oil was nuetralised then SG with the pressure washer and further sweeping to clear the emulsified oil worked a treat. It was time consuming but effective. There's no quick fix.
You got any photographic proof? Didn't know you actually grafted at race meetings!
deadsquirrel is offline  
__________________
Everybody, sooner or later, sits down to a banquet of consequences. Robert Lous Stephenson
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[LM24] Le Mans Track Changes (Not Safety Issues!) J.J.S.S.Express 24 Heures du Mans 214 26 Jun 2013 09:01
Ansan, South Korea track revealed (Autosport article + supposed track map?) StickShift ChampCar World Series 2 30 Jan 2005 05:15
F1 in Bahrain/The Track - all threads merged into one discussion bahraini spirit Formula One 61 17 Apr 2004 08:21
Mechanics sweep dirty side of track for start? (merged) Sodemo Formula One 46 28 Aug 2003 13:44
best uk track shinchley Trackside 51 23 Nov 2002 19:21


All times are GMT. The time now is 16:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.