Bellof v Johansson

[plutoman99]

Stefan Bellof is often regarded as the lost talent of his generation, but one thing still bugs me; after Brundle's accident, Bellof was paired with Stefan Johansson at Tyrrell for a few races, and rather suffered in comparison, although there wasn't a lot to chose between them. It didn't seem to matter at the time, as Johansson was also young and highly rated, but his subsequent career was fairly mediocre at the top level, so was Bellof really that good?

[John Turner]

This is what I said recently about Bellof, on another thread:-

I think the trouble with Bellof, though, was that he just didn't know when not to push too hard. He was simply too fast for his own good (ask Derek Bell amongst others). You can't drive as close to the edge as he did virtually all the time without the tragic consequences that eventually caught him out

It is difficult to compare directly with Johansson, who never seemed to drive at that level of commitment and whilst not as fast, was more measured than Bellof. One has to say that the impression was that Bellof was never going to get to that stage in his career where he took a more thoughtful approach to his driving. However, I think it would also be fair to say that Johansson would be disappointed by his performance and results at the very highest level.

[chunterer]

I think John's summary says it all really.

Johansson was certainly a driver who looked likely to be a top liner for many years, as he had excelled in the lower formulas.

He might well have been a regular race winner in F1 had he joined both Ferrari and Mclaren at different times. In fact Ferrari really ought to have kept him on after 1986 as he did very well.

His year at Mclaren was a transition year for them whilst waiting for Senna if you like. He scored regularly and was their leading points scorer early in the year until Prost got going. But i would have thought he would have warranted a drive with another top team in 1988?

I mean Prost Senna Mansell and Piquet were the top four and Alboreto was promising things but most of the other drivers were seasoned campaigners and not doing a lot so the Swede ought to have slotted into one decent seat.

He's certainly another guy for the on and off 'unfulfilled talents' thread!

Bellof was of the same era coming through the ranks, i guess i was still quite young at the time but people were raving about him after F2.

On the other hand he never actually hammered his teammates did he? Brundle had the upper hand on him most of the time at Tyrrell and he was also a hard charger with points to prove.

Overall i would say Bellof knew only how to drive flat out (very well) and Johansson was also very quick but measured.

Bellof may have calmed down after a few seasons and i reckon Ferrari would have picked him up for 1987 if he had still been around instead of Berger or Alboreto (Enzo would have seen Bellof as the storm to oppose Alboreto's calm if you like).

[alesi95]

Johanssen went to Ligier after Mclaren.....not, in hindsight, a smart move.
Whilst on the topic of best driver never to win in F1, personally think Brundle was better

[Alan Raine]

Johanssen seemed very good in F3 & F2 with good backing, and like Bellof looked like he was going to be a star. Bellof was certainly always on the limit but Johanssen could hang in with the best of them, but maybe not so dramatically.

I'm not sure if the Spirit Honda effort was a help or a hinderance, but he was around for a lot long afterwards and didn't disgrace himself.

He's had a good career since finishing with F1, so he can't be too unhappy with life.

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by alesi95

Whilst on the topic of best driver never to win in F1, personally think Brundle was better

Agree with that. A bit like Chris Amon, never jumped the final hurdle.

[plutoman99]

Not sure Johansson had much choice in '88 - Ligier was probably as good as any other offer on the table at the time, but that year's car was particularly poor. However, he had probably had his chance by then anyway. Although he was impressive for much of '86 at Ferrari, his performances at McLaren in '87 were generally lacklustre. He was good in F3 and F2, but only sporadically, and was often outshone by others in similar machinery, notably Serra, De Cesaris, Thackwell, Acheson and Boutsen.

As for the best driver never to win a GP - Amon aside – how about Derek Warwick? A case of right place, wrong time, on more than one occasion. He was certainly rated higher than Mansell early on.

[chunterer]

But didn't Steve Johnson win the Brit F3 title in 1980 quite convincingly?!

I see what you're saying but there's been a lot of cases where a driver's been beaten at some point by other guys in F3 or whatever only to show better than them in F1 or carve out a longer career for one reason or another.

Of those you mention, Serra didn't make it after a good junior career (Osella's weren't a good place to start though!), we know De Cesaris was fast but never had the right head on him. Boutsen was a solid driver but never spectacular. Acheson may have done a lot better with backing?

My view is that only Thackwell was more talented and promised more throughout his shortish career than Johansson. Indeed the Kiwi was 'unofficially' rated as one of the top 5 drivers in the world in 1985 and he wasn't even in F1 at the time?! I think he has to go down as the wasted talent of any era, certainly of drivers who are still living anyway.

But regarding what he actually did in F1, Johansson actually had a good year in 1987 in my book. He had some misfortune later in the year but undoubtedly he found out Prost was very good and the team was behind the Frenchman anyway. Earlier in the year he looked very consistent and solid doing just what the team expected. He would have been retained if they hadn't got Senna, or Prost had left for example - who knows what Johansson would've done with the MP4/4?!!

Later on he showed pace in the Onyx in '89 underlining his class and if that team hadn't have declined so rapidly and someone had backed Mike Earle for a bit longer (rather than him having to sell to Van what's his face) the team would have gone on to achieve some reasonable success with SJ and Lehto at the wheel i believe.

He ended up as a journeyman, but it should have been very different.

[Dan Rear]

Re Stefan, remember he always had Marlboro money behind him, so usually had decent drives in F3 and F2. He did win the 80 F3 series here, but was floundering in the March 803, before he got the RT3 last on. He then admittedly won the champ, but before this he was being outpaced by other Marches, Acheson and White, not to mention the Argos and RT3s, with less experienced drivers.

In F2 he was usually quicker than Acheson in the Docking Toleman, but out-finished if not oupaced by Boutsen the next year in the Spirits. I reckon that team kept him on in 83 with the Honda F1 car as he was likely to show better speed-wise in it than Boutsen, though if it had been reliable I think TB would have been better overall.

So though SJ was always quick, I think he was a little over-rated. And I always thought Bellof 2-3 years behind him in career terms.