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Old 24 Apr 2009, 08:45 (Ref:2448443)   #26
Aussie 01
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Originally Posted by GTRMagic View Post
But motorsport is different The principles of economics dont apply

A brand is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Will the TKR brand survive and prosper without V8Supercar? That is an interesting question.

10 years of maintaining a name does not automatically attribute positive brand equity to that name when the last 4 years at least have been such difficult performances.
GTR

Firstly the TKR brand has to be for sale and as we have confirmed it is not.

Secondly the TKR brand was started and used by TKR before they entered V8 Supercars. Remember the two TKR 2.0ltr touring cars and two TKR NZV8 Touring cars.

I am sure the TKR brand will live on well and be stronger than ever with or with out V8 Supercars.
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Old 24 Apr 2009, 09:18 (Ref:2448469)   #27
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Aussie 01 - Evomike, stat you?
or,
Aussie 01 - DJ, finally got your login to work??

Sumthin fishy here.....

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Old 24 Apr 2009, 09:23 (Ref:2448475)   #28
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Hmmm, Aussie 01's spelling and grammar is VERY similar to Evomike's when someone (ahem) borrowed his login. It's not DJ again surely??
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Old 24 Apr 2009, 09:38 (Ref:2448480)   #29
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Originally Posted by Aussie 01 View Post
GTR

Firstly the TKR brand has to be for sale and as we have confirmed it is not.

Secondly the TKR brand was started and used by TKR before they entered V8 Supercars. Remember the two TKR 2.0ltr touring cars and two TKR NZV8 Touring cars.

I am sure the TKR brand will live on well and be stronger than ever with or with out V8 Supercars.
Nissans you owned, NZv8s you did not own a car you leased them, untill yea the ending.

DJ, evo is that you. The grammer is the same and the spin is obvious.
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Old 24 Apr 2009, 10:51 (Ref:2448529)   #30
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Nissans you owned, NZv8s you did not own a car you leased them, untill yea the ending.

DJ, evo is that you. The grammer is the same and the spin is obvious.
Keep the "STYLE" but change the names? Nah that wouldn't work. No ones that naieve, are they?
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Old 24 Apr 2009, 11:07 (Ref:2448540)   #31
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A question - to what level is TKR involved in the running of the Fiore #021 car now? Any at all? Has TKR personnel been attending race meetings this year, working on the #021?

Or is the #021 effectively a third PMM car wearing heat-sink paint?
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Old 24 Apr 2009, 12:55 (Ref:2448613)   #32
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you mean letting someone do the hard work and then because they are in financial difficlties try and buy it at a discount price.

i really shouldn't have to explain it
If you're going to make slanderous statements then you really should have to explain it.

However, as the OP says, let's keep this thread for discussion of who is/might be buying the licence. Discussion of the current owner and matters concerning should remain in the TKR thread. I will start moving posts over there if it persists.
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Old 24 Apr 2009, 12:58 (Ref:2448618)   #33
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These TRK threads are starting to rival all the 'Webber Vs The entire world' threads.
Aussie 01, DJ, Evo, whatever or whoever you are (I really don't give a rats) can I ask why you feel so deserate to defend all what is said here on what is effectively "A p**s ant forum"?
I can't see the point.
You are never going to convert anyone apart from a couple of regular muppets on here into believing any of what you say and why bother trying?
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Old 24 Apr 2009, 13:51 (Ref:2448650)   #34
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Originally Posted by Woolley View Post
If you're going to make slanderous statements then you really should have to explain it.

However, as the OP says, let's keep this thread for discussion of who is/might be buying the licence. Discussion of the current owner and matters concerning should remain in the TKR thread. I will start moving posts over there if it persists.
Im thinking i was pretty clear, not much need for explaining

and thatks for becoming the anti TKR brigade whipping boy

but as you wish. I heard that Garth tander is going to buy it. Apparantly its the next step from him running DVS cars this year with tandersports. and with whats happening at HRT, he is looking for a greener pastures
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Old 24 Apr 2009, 15:36 (Ref:2448702)   #35
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From what i understand Mr John and others have already put in place a number of exciting oppertunities that will see the TKR brand live on for many years to come with or without a involvment in V8 supercars.
Now I would seriously doubt that considering the clock has run out on sponsors and money.
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Old 24 Apr 2009, 22:40 (Ref:2448919)   #36
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DJJ if i was you i wouldnt throw stones in a glass house.
Good advice AO1...Consider it..
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Old 25 Apr 2009, 07:23 (Ref:2449042)   #37
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Hi GTi,
very astute post I must say.

I confirm you are 100 percent right.

I can also confirm that I have lodged a formal expression of interest with the Official Assignee, for the purchase of the intellectual Property, ie. the trade mark etc.

Unlike some I still believe there is real value in the name TKR, but only if it is attached to a top running Kiwi driver, in an essentially "Kiwi Team". SBR fits that bill as does PCR, although not to the same extent as it once used to when Paul was the principal shareholder.



Mark Petch.
Hi,
I stand corrected.

Paul has advised me that not only is he the principal shareholder in PCR, but he is in fact its only shareholder. As such, I offered Paul my sincere apologies.

This means that as far as my own aspirations go, both SBR and PCR and their respective Kiwi stars, would make ideal candidates for the profits generated from a successful "TKR" marketing initiative.

Regards,

Mark Petch.
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Old 25 Apr 2009, 21:49 (Ref:2449527)   #38
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I opened a box of Corn Flakes this morning for breakfast, and, wow there was a REC in there. "Welcome to V8Supers it said", I quickly threw it in the bin and made another cup of coffee.
Another worthless piece of paper amongs my corn flakes.
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Old 26 Apr 2009, 09:20 (Ref:2449745)   #39
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If there are any volunteers out there to stop talking crap and explain to us racing fans who aren't into all of this political garbage who may be racing at Winton in this seat, it would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 26 Apr 2009, 09:24 (Ref:2449747)   #40
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The same as before, Dean
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Old 26 Apr 2009, 10:16 (Ref:2449785)   #41
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The same as before, Dean
Thanks DJJ. That is the most informative post in any of the TKR threads for 2009 and it only took 5 words!!!!
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Old 27 Apr 2009, 11:18 (Ref:2450581)   #42
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fomoco should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridfomoco should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Looks more likely to be Tripple F Racing. So this must be close to the end.
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Old 28 Apr 2009, 00:49 (Ref:2451187)   #43
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Looks more likely to be Tripple F Racing. So this must be close to the end.
Who, pray tell, is Tripple F Racing???
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Old 28 Apr 2009, 01:21 (Ref:2451201)   #44
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Who, pray tell, is Tripple F Racing???
Triple Fiores I presume... Todd, Dean and Paul...

Hope someone tells then you cant run 3 drivers in the enduros....
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Old 28 Apr 2009, 08:27 (Ref:2451362)   #45
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Triple Fiores I presume... Todd, Dean and Paul...
Spot on, now can we close this
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Old 28 Apr 2009, 09:15 (Ref:2451395)   #46
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Actually, I am not sure this is the end...

The story from the powder room goes that there were allegedly 2 bids for the Numero Uno-owned Team Kiwi Racing Racing Entitlement Contract ("TKR REC"), allegedly one from the Fiore racing entity, and another from a consortium made up of multiple parties.

In the end, by the closing period set by VESA, the Fiore racing entity bid was allegedly the only entry capable of being executed for the sale of the TKR REC.

As some of the more detail focused readers may be aware, the TKR REC was allegedly originally constructed in the era of the TEGA Teams Licence Agreement, as a Level 2 Franchise Licence Slot.

With the commencement of the shiny new 2009 Racing Entitlement Contract to settle commercial matters pertaining to the rights and obligations, as well as income streams of licence holders, a Level 2 Franchise Licence Slot allegedly needed to be upgraded to be eligible to achieve a full spec 2009 REC

There were allegedly a couple of options here, to either pay the alleged $750k upgrade fee up front (which Britek allegedly did for one of their franchise licence slots) or where TEGA would allegedly withhold REC income for a period of 2 years, allegedly to the equivalent value of $750k.

Numero Uno allegedly chose to do the latter, to pay $375k per season for 2 seasons, via deduction from TLA/REC income entitlements. The first season of deduction had allegedly already been completed, with 2009 the second and last period. Allegedly of course!

This was allegedly not placing additional financial imposts on the Level 2 franchise licence slot holders, as the income stream before and after the conversion from the Teams Agreement to the Racing Entitlement Contract (less the $375k per annum upgrade fee) was allegedly about the same.

Why is this important?

As discussed in MeN, VESA has allegedly proceeded with the transfer of the TKR REC to the Fiore racing entity. Allegedly.

Like everything to do with motorsport, money and price and value are sometimes interesting. In this particular scenario, it is alleged that the sale price of the TKR REC to the Fiore racing entity was as little as $1 million Australian Dollars.

To give some relevance, the sale of the Walden/Romano REC was reported in the press at $2 million AUD. VESA allegedly guaranteed that this licence was already at REC standard, and no further funds were required to upgrade (it too was allegedly on the TEGA PAYG plan for upgrade from TLA to REC). Presumably the upgrade costs were deducted by VESA before final monies were remitted to Mr Romano and Mr Walden.

So it seems the Fiore racing entity may have gotten a good deal, paying half what WP had managed in the most recent transaction. Allegedly.

However, it appears that the Fiore racing entity shall allegedly continue the payment of the old TEGA upgrade fee of $375k for the balance of this season.

For all intents and purposes, the Fiore racing entity has allegedly bought itself a 2009 Racing Entitlement Contract for $1.375m, when the most recent going rate was allegedly $2m.

While the shareholders in Numero Uno shall receive, less costs for advertising and handling of the sale, and any other owings and outgoings due to VESA, allegedly somewhere around NZ$1.2m from the sale of this TKR REC, depending on currency positions.

An asset is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. All the valuers in the world are only estimating what something may go for in a sale situation, and in this case, a price was paid for the TKR REC that crystallises its valuation. The price may be low compared to some, but given the number of interested parties with their acts together, on the day, the price paid was what the TKR REC was worth, and what VESA were willing to sell it for. Allegedly.

The challenge back in Kiwiland now, is the unravelling of the the alleged registered debts owed across the legal entities, and by Mr John either personally or as guarantor, to unwind a financial web that took more than 10 years to construct.

Presuming any of this actually happened
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Old 28 Apr 2009, 10:49 (Ref:2451463)   #47
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Originally Posted by GTRMagic View Post
Actually, I am not sure this is the end...

The story from the powder room goes that there were allegedly 2 bids for the Numero Uno-owned Team Kiwi Racing Racing Entitlement Contract ("TKR REC"), allegedly one from the Fiore racing entity, and another from a consortium made up of multiple parties.

In the end, by the closing period set by VESA, the Fiore racing entity bid was allegedly the only entry capable of being executed for the sale of the TKR REC.

As some of the more detail focused readers may be aware, the TKR REC was allegedly originally constructed in the era of the TEGA Teams Licence Agreement, as a Level 2 Franchise Licence Slot.

With the commencement of the shiny new 2009 Racing Entitlement Contract to settle commercial matters pertaining to the rights and obligations, as well as income streams of licence holders, a Level 2 Franchise Licence Slot allegedly needed to be upgraded to be eligible to achieve a full spec 2009 REC

There were allegedly a couple of options here, to either pay the alleged $750k upgrade fee up front (which Britek allegedly did for one of their franchise licence slots) or where TEGA would allegedly withhold REC income for a period of 2 years, allegedly to the equivalent value of $750k.

Numero Uno allegedly chose to do the latter, to pay $375k per season for 2 seasons, via deduction from TLA/REC income entitlements. The first season of deduction had allegedly already been completed, with 2009 the second and last period. Allegedly of course!

This was allegedly not placing additional financial imposts on the Level 2 franchise licence slot holders, as the income stream before and after the conversion from the Teams Agreement to the Racing Entitlement Contract (less the $375k per annum upgrade fee) was allegedly about the same.

Why is this important?

As discussed in MeN, VESA has allegedly proceeded with the transfer of the TKR REC to the Fiore racing entity. Allegedly.

Like everything to do with motorsport, money and price and value are sometimes interesting. In this particular scenario, it is alleged that the sale price of the TKR REC to the Fiore racing entity was as little as $1 million Australian Dollars.

To give some relevance, the sale of the Walden/Romano REC was reported in the press at $2 million AUD. VESA allegedly guaranteed that this licence was already at REC standard, and no further funds were required to upgrade (it too was allegedly on the TEGA PAYG plan for upgrade from TLA to REC). Presumably the upgrade costs were deducted by VESA before final monies were remitted to Mr Romano and Mr Walden.

So it seems the Fiore racing entity may have gotten a good deal, paying half what WP had managed in the most recent transaction. Allegedly.

However, it appears that the Fiore racing entity shall allegedly continue the payment of the old TEGA upgrade fee of $375k for the balance of this season.

For all intents and purposes, the Fiore racing entity has allegedly bought itself a 2009 Racing Entitlement Contract for $1.375m, when the most recent going rate was allegedly $2m.

While the shareholders in Numero Uno shall receive, less costs for advertising and handling of the sale, and any other owings and outgoings due to VESA, allegedly somewhere around NZ$1.2m from the sale of this TKR REC, depending on currency positions.

An asset is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. All the valuers in the world are only estimating what something may go for in a sale situation, and in this case, a price was paid for the TKR REC that crystallises its valuation. The price may be low compared to some, but given the number of interested parties with their acts together, on the day, the price paid was what the TKR REC was worth, and what VESA were willing to sell it for. Allegedly.

The challenge back in Kiwiland now, is the unravelling of the the alleged registered debts owed across the legal entities, and by Mr John either personally or as guarantor, to unwind a financial web that took more than 10 years to construct.

Presuming any of this actually happened
... a deal like this would see a ROOKIE and his CREW into the main game at what seems to be a good deal... ... Dad, 3 sons as drivers, and a clean slate, Good start for Tripple F... or for anyone IMO.

Presuming any of it actually happens.
A downer for NZ fans though if there's no more local team to follow.
I'm not sure its over either...
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Old 28 Apr 2009, 11:26 (Ref:2451489)   #48
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GTR, just on your first sentance "Actually, I am not sure this is the end."

Am i right in saying this is the end as far as the TKR licence is concerned. You started your post suggesting there was still more to happen, but didnt come back to that from a licence point of view? or is it still up in the air?

and your comment was more meant to be regarding the team TKR and its continuation through bankruptcy?
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Old 28 Apr 2009, 11:38 (Ref:2451498)   #49
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The TKR REC lives in perpetuity, in the hands now of the Fiore racing entity.

The stuff that hasnt ended is the tussle over the realised price from this, and the creditors to get slices... and the interesting piece about the offer price.

The TKR brand is still to be onsold, despite all the noise to the contrary the OA is allegedly still taking bids.... so may be back!
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Old 28 Apr 2009, 11:44 (Ref:2451505)   #50
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peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
in theory then the creditors may kick up and complain, afterall the 375K owed to V8SA has now been fully meet, while they may only get a %cent in the dollar, so there may be some argument regarding preferintal treatment. is that correct?
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