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7 Sep 2010, 15:06 (Ref:2755736) | #26 | |
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A reliable 800bhp would be very easily attainable from 1600cc I4 turbo using the kind of technology they have today in F1. 650bhp motors would probably last several seasons' racing !
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7 Sep 2010, 15:36 (Ref:2755755) | #27 | ||
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I simply cannot believe that people are calling 4 cylinder turbo 650hp machines a lawnmower!!
Given that almost no-one on this forum will have driven anything over 300hp, and most not even over 200hp, there really is some arse gravy being spoken. As others have said, with F1 engine tech, a 4 cylinder 1.6l turbo would produce 800 at least I would have thought. It would sound mental as well. Not the mental of current engines, but mental nevertheless. |
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Locost #54 Boldly Leaping where no car has gone before. And then being T-boned. Damn. Survivor of the 2008 2CV 24h!! 2 engines, one accident, 76mph and rain. |
7 Sep 2010, 16:03 (Ref:2755762) | #28 | |
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Current engines do not sound mental, at all.
Bring back V10's and V12's. *raises fist without black glove* |
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7 Sep 2010, 18:01 (Ref:2755828) | #29 | |||
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I say bring back mazda with there 1.3 rotary engines, then they will sound like proper race cars again! :P |
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7 Sep 2010, 19:57 (Ref:2755890) | #30 | |||
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8 Sep 2010, 07:39 (Ref:2756059) | #31 | |
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Seeing as BMW were getting 1200+ BHP in qualifying trim out of 1.5L L4's in the mid-1980's 800ish BHP should be easily attainable today even with an 11,000 rev limit.
I like the idea coupled with ground effects. |
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8 Sep 2010, 07:41 (Ref:2756060) | #32 | |
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Also. A 1.6 litre engine with a turbo is going to be much more more driveable (torquey) than a 2.4 non-turbo engine, particularly if modern turbo technology (variable vanes etc) is used.
Note: Maybe there will be the opportunity to use multiple turbo's? Many modern small car engines already use a combination of turbo's and superchargers (VW etc). Last edited by Marbot; 8 Sep 2010 at 07:48. |
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8 Sep 2010, 08:06 (Ref:2756071) | #33 | ||
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Locost #54 Boldly Leaping where no car has gone before. And then being T-boned. Damn. Survivor of the 2008 2CV 24h!! 2 engines, one accident, 76mph and rain. |
8 Sep 2010, 08:08 (Ref:2756073) | #34 | ||
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Locost #54 Boldly Leaping where no car has gone before. And then being T-boned. Damn. Survivor of the 2008 2CV 24h!! 2 engines, one accident, 76mph and rain. |
8 Sep 2010, 11:50 (Ref:2756131) | #35 | ||
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I think my views are well known by now. IMO the GRE has no place or relevance in motorsport genereally and definitely not in F1. The day it is introduced will be the day I turn my back on all FIA controlled motorsport.
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The Romans didn't build an empire by having meetings... They did it by killing all who opposed them. |
8 Sep 2010, 12:43 (Ref:2756158) | #36 | |||
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'Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines.' - Enzo Ferrari |
8 Sep 2010, 12:56 (Ref:2756160) | #37 | ||
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I think the regs are somewhat stuck in in the GFC "downsizing/economising/eco-friendly" train of thought.
The ground effects I support, but with the reduced engine sizes, they run the risk of someone turning up with a rival series touting 3.5 V12's or the like. And if the racing is average, fans/teams could gravitate away. |
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8 Sep 2010, 14:58 (Ref:2756216) | #38 | ||
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The WIFE'S car is around 360 bhp, a tad bit more than my lawn mower.
I for one don't want to be able to buy anything that comes close to an F1 Car. That's why I watch, to be in awe of the power. When the day comes that my wife can drive a car that may be able to kick an F1 car's arse... ...I'll start watching something else. |
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8 Sep 2010, 17:17 (Ref:2756278) | #39 | ||
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BTW - a completely new engine format, probably a new chassis, ground effects...
...this saves money how? |
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8 Sep 2010, 17:36 (Ref:2756287) | #40 | |
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Ferrari indicate that they won't be playing:
http://www.motorsport.com/news/artic...D=385828&FS=F1 Who can blame them? They have never had a production 4 cylinder engine..... |
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8 Sep 2010, 17:49 (Ref:2756299) | #41 | ||
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Quote:
Please choose the statement you most strongly agree with: a) Formula 1 would be just as good as it is now without Ferrari b) Formula 1 would be a fairer sporting series without Ferrari c) The prospect of Formula1 without Ferrari is very exciting, I am looking forward to the 2013 season already d) The disappearance of the one team that believes it is bigger than the sport would be an important step forward for F1 |
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8 Sep 2010, 18:04 (Ref:2756309) | #42 | |||
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It isn't premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married. |
8 Sep 2010, 18:08 (Ref:2756312) | #43 | |||
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The ACO controlled GT classes will use whats in the road car as well, though a few years down the line a Corvette with a V6 turbowon't be out of the question, neither would an M3 with a 2.0l turbo or a 2.0l flat-6 Porsche (re. BMW and Porsche its not as if they don;t have a history of those types of engine) The GRE is mainly designed for single seaters + DTM and as an engine option for P1 in the future (alongside the NA and diesel engines that the ACO allow). The fact that its being used in rallying and touring cars is purely down to the fact that 1.6l turbos are what most road cars of S2000 size are using in the production car. And of anyone thinks that 650bhp isn't enough for F1 may I point out that with ground effects the cars will be running less/smaller wings which will produce less drag and therefore mean the cars will need less power to maintain the same speeds that they currently do. Less wings also mean less turbulence and better racing. |
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"On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit.' And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high." -Ayrton Senna |
8 Sep 2010, 18:27 (Ref:2756323) | #44 | ||
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If they insist on going to turbos then I would much prefer V6 turbos. Straight 4's don't really do it for me.
In fact, they should just turbo charge V12's instead. |
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8 Sep 2010, 19:17 (Ref:2756340) | #45 | ||
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It isn't premarital sex if you have no intention of getting married. |
8 Sep 2010, 22:21 (Ref:2756452) | #46 | |||
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Though it pertains to IndyCars, there's some interesting stuff about engines and engine regs in this Gordon Kirby article with some input from Mario Ilien of Ilmor fame. http://gordonkirby.com/categories/co..._is_no237.html Last edited by bjohnsonsmith; 8 Sep 2010 at 22:29. |
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
10 Sep 2010, 13:52 (Ref:2757274) | #47 | ||
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Cosworth on the 2013 engine regulations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w39wcmDj2Rg |
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'Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines.' - Enzo Ferrari |
9 Oct 2010, 13:17 (Ref:2771963) | #48 | ||
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The manufactures initially pushed forward the GRE, but it seems they've turned their back to it.
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/f...o-2786432.html Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari have estimated that developing the proposed engine will cost around €100 million. Cosworth has estimated it could develop an engine according to the proposed regulations for €20 million. Its customer will then have to pay for the development, but as the smaller teams lease their engines for €6 million a year, the engine manufactures fear the costs will be too high. Thus the manufactures want to keep the current V8s, although with gasoline direct injection, a fuel-flow restriction and KERS. |
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'Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines.' - Enzo Ferrari |
9 Oct 2010, 13:43 (Ref:2771971) | #49 | |
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Austerity seems to be breaking out everywhere!
Can't see the point of developing an engine that probably won't be the way that most car manufacturers intend to go anyway, and the BMW/Mercedes/whatever that's just passed you will more than likely be a diesel, at least in Europe it will anyway. It's not like road car development is ever moved on or held back by whatever happens or doesn't happen in F1 on a technological basis. |
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9 Oct 2010, 14:41 (Ref:2771993) | #50 | |
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Road car investment is moving away from diesel to petrol turbos.
All motorsport has operated in a vacum until recently but we are reaching a stage were new technology has to be developed for the road otherwise performance cars are going to be legislated and/or priced off the road. |
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