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Old 1 May 2013, 14:49 (Ref:3241355)   #251
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Marko is a destructive prick, I like the sentiment from you though...
That's good. I was a tad concerned it had come over overly aggressive.

This kind of "politicking" (not sure I like that word, but it'll do) leaves a sour taste in the mouth.
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Old 2 May 2013, 01:05 (Ref:3241567)   #252
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Mateschitz has a point though:

""Formula one no longer has anything to do with 'classic' racing," said the Austrian, according to the Daily Mirror. "Today, it's not the fastest driver in the fastest car who wins, but the one with the optimum tyre management.

It isn't racing it is an economy run.

Pirelli are just hi-jacking the lions share of the coverage with a sub-standard product. On top of this it is a control component. They either need to make them reliable or open the field to other suppliers."
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Old 2 May 2013, 10:14 (Ref:3241677)   #253
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It isn't racing it is an economy run.
..........
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Old 2 May 2013, 11:33 (Ref:3241703)   #254
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I don't think a tyre war would be good, don't like the idea.
And also believe that tyre management should be an important skill of any driver and taken into consideration when creating a car, but you shouldn't make it the main denominator deciding the race...


I liked the comparison with the Olympics earlier in this thread, imagine if Bolt had to slow down to prevent his shoes breaking off because the International Olympic Committee thinks it is good for the show.
People all over the world would complain and say the competition is rigged and manipulated.
Well, maybe not. Maybe if Bolt was as hated as Vettel and RBR are among F1 fans most people would probably support the change and be happy to see other slower runners winning a 100m race based on shoe management only
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Old 2 May 2013, 11:39 (Ref:3241704)   #255
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Spritle has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Count me as one of those that like to see drivers pushing 100% with the fastest car winning, even if is the same bloke every race which only seems to bother fans when the driver isn't innocuous. (BTW - RBR is NOT the team I support.)

As I said back in the day of Ferrari domination, let the others step up their game. This pushing at 75% is economy racing and rubbish IMHO and possibly another reason TV viewership is falling.

I also suggest that going forward the owners of this website change the name of the F1 section from 10 Tenths to 7 Tenths to more accurately reflect the current state of F1.
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Old 2 May 2013, 14:28 (Ref:3241767)   #256
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The only time I can remember drivers being able to push 100% was when we had bespoke qualifying tyres. Ironically, Pirelli did suggest qualifying tyres to the teams at the end of last season. The teams didn't want them. What are you gonna do?
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Old 2 May 2013, 18:06 (Ref:3241842)   #257
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Why was refueling banned again? F1 was closer to 10 tenths with it.
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Old 2 May 2013, 23:30 (Ref:3241955)   #258
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Originally Posted by Spritle View Post
Count me as one of those that like to see drivers pushing 100% with the fastest car winning, even if is the same bloke every race which only seems to bother fans when the driver isn't innocuous. (BTW - RBR is NOT the team I support.)

As I said back in the day of Ferrari domination, let the others step up their game. This pushing at 75% is economy racing and rubbish IMHO and possibly another reason TV viewership is falling.

I also suggest that going forward the owners of this website change the name of the F1 section from 10 Tenths to 7 Tenths to more accurately reflect the current state of F1.
My feelings exactly! Great post.


WEC is the place to watch equipment management issues.

F1 should be a gruelling sprint race. No ifs or buts!
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Old 3 May 2013, 06:24 (Ref:3241969)   #259
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In the '70s cars could do a whole race on one set of tyres...has technology regressed?....
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Old 3 May 2013, 09:05 (Ref:3242037)   #260
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Originally Posted by Spritle View Post
Count me as one of those that like to see drivers pushing 100% with the fastest car winning, even if is the same bloke every race which only seems to bother fans when the driver isn't innocuous. (BTW - RBR is NOT the team I support.)

As I said back in the day of Ferrari domination, let the others step up their game. This pushing at 75% is economy racing and rubbish IMHO and possibly another reason TV viewership is falling.

I also suggest that going forward the owners of this website change the name of the F1 section from 10 Tenths to 7 Tenths to more accurately reflect the current state of F1.
Spot on !
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Old 3 May 2013, 13:07 (Ref:3242125)   #261
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In the '70s cars could do a whole race on one set of tyres...has technology regressed?....
That's it !
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Old 4 May 2013, 09:35 (Ref:3242539)   #262
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Old 4 May 2013, 19:57 (Ref:3242860)   #263
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F1 should be a gruelling sprint race. No ifs or buts!
It's always been about managing equipment. Alain Prost was famous for it.

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In the '70s cars could do a whole race on one set of tyres...has technology regressed?....
The cars were much slower and less powerful and the tyres were much larger.
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Old 4 May 2013, 20:10 (Ref:3242869)   #264
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The cars were much slower and less powerful and the tyres were much larger.
And the racing was more exciting.....yes lets not go back there..
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Old 4 May 2013, 21:36 (Ref:3242907)   #265
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It's always been about managing equipment. Alain Prost was famous for it.
The current situation is more about pit stop strategies, comparable with the situation prior the (re-)banning of refuelling. Alain Prost is famous for opposing the use of pit stop strategies as a way to win races.
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Old 5 May 2013, 00:18 (Ref:3242945)   #266
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And the racing was more exciting.....yes lets not go back there..
Was it? You've got those rose-tints on again.

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The current situation is more about pit stop strategies, comparable with the situation prior the (re-)banning of refuelling. Alain Prost is famous for opposing the use of pit stop strategies as a way to win races.
It's just not possible to please everyone.

But if you were to go to harder tyres now, then you'll only be pleasing the Vettel fans. How many more 'fingers' can his detractors stand?

Oh wait...I'm giving the credit to the driver....silly me.
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Old 5 May 2013, 00:59 (Ref:3242948)   #267
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Was it? You've got those rose-tints on again.



It's just not possible to please everyone.

But if you were to go to harder tyres now, then you'll only be pleasing the Vettel fans. How many more 'fingers' can his detractors stand?

Oh wait...I'm giving the credit to the driver....silly me.
Some of the latest posts of this thread seem to suggest otherwise.
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Old 5 May 2013, 01:32 (Ref:3242951)   #268
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Fuel Stop Racing: ''Oh it's so terrible and boring, pit strategy determines the race instead of what's happening on the track. That German guy wins all the races and since he's such a meanie according to the Great Motorsport prophet and F1 Legend Martin Brundle I hate him, Formula 1 sucks!''

Tire Stop Racing: ''Oh it's so great the race is determined by pit strategy instead of racing itself. I don't like the German guy that wins most of the races but since he only wins 25-50% of the races instead of 75% like that other German guy I love the racing. F1 is so awesome!!!!!!##!!1111!1 and OMG DRS!!''

This is the reaction I see when people compare these two eras, and it really makes no sense as it accomplishes the same thing, taking away the importance of the on-track action itself.


If Red Bull are dominating the sport, then work your tails off or find advantages in new regs, it's not their fault they have a better engineering staff than the rest of the field.

Just like the Dream team days at Ferrari, and eventually, they were beaten. Just ask Flavio and Fernando.
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Old 5 May 2013, 09:16 (Ref:3243013)   #269
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[QUOTE=FordCosworthPanoz;3242951]Fuel Stop Racing: ''Oh it's so terrible and boring, pit strategy determines the race instead of what's happening on the track. That German guy wins all the races and since he's such a meanie according to the Great Motorsport prophet and F1 Legend Martin Brundle I hate him, Formula 1 sucks!''

Tire Stop Racing: ''Oh it's so great the race is determined by pit strategy instead of racing itself. I don't like the German guy that wins most of the races but since he only wins 25-50% of the races instead of 75% like that other German guy I love the racing. F1 is so awesome!!!!!!##!!1111!1 and OMG DRS!!''
/QUOTE]

True, but with fuel stops the drivers could push much harder. While some Schumacher-Ferrari years were dull due to their dominance, it was exciting to see him do several qualifying like laps in a row, always on the edge.
It was just as strategy driven as today but now it's more like a "slow but steady" approach because everything depends on tire degradation.
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Old 5 May 2013, 09:36 (Ref:3243017)   #270
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Was it? You've got those rose-tints on again.

I bet Ron Howard never makes a film about any of Vettels championships...
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Old 5 May 2013, 11:17 (Ref:3243043)   #271
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He probably will, just add some drama, a love interest and actors that look considerably better than their characters. Sounds like the script of 'rush'!
I would suggest Paul Hogan for the role of Webber.

Last edited by jedrinck; 5 May 2013 at 11:41.
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Old 5 May 2013, 12:33 (Ref:3243068)   #272
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Originally Posted by Armco Bender View Post
In the '70s cars could do a whole race on one set of tyres...has technology regressed?....
Yeah, but in the 70s, satisfying armchair 'fans" wasn't a priority.

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The cars were much slower and less powerful and the tyres were much larger.
Are you saying, had the size of the tyres in the 70s been the same as now, there wouldn't be much difference between either product?

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Why was refueling banned again?
Because the FIA took 14 years to realise it was a terrible idea. It should never have been implemented in the first place

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F1 was closer to 10 tenths with it.
Now you are just making up "facts".
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Old 5 May 2013, 13:11 (Ref:3243079)   #273
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(1)Count me as one of those that like to see drivers pushing 100% with the fastest car winning, even if is the same bloke every race which only seems to bother fans when the driver isn't innocuous. (BTW - RBR is NOT the team I support.)

(2)As I said back in the day of Ferrari domination, let the others step up their game. (3)This pushing at 75% is economy racing and rubbish IMHO and possibly another reason TV viewership is falling.

(4)I also suggest that going forward the owners of this website change the name of the F1 section from 10 Tenths to 7 Tenths to more accurately reflect the current state of F1.
(1) So, what you are saying is, you are not a fan of genuine, top level motorsport? Also, the fastest car is most likely to win. It's just it'll be a car that is fastest over 300km, rather than 30km.

(2) What is suppose to reflect stepping their game? Do you like money being the determining factor of success? There has to be as many grey areas in top level motorsport. Unfortunately, the tyres nowadays is just an artificial way of creating it.

(3) Tbh, F1 was better when it was just a really popular "niche" competition, as opposed to a try-hard mainstream competition. If fair weather fans don't like it, then good! I'm happy to see the back of them.


(4) Maybe you should get over yourself. Top level sport is about seeing how you go when you are highly vulnerable. In F1, it means managing the fastest racing cars and as many grey areas (tyre wear, heavy fuel loads) for 300km. Sometimes you have to go hard, and sometimes you have to back off. That's how it is.

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My feelings exactly!(1) Great post.


(2)WEC is the place to watch equipment management issues.

(3)F1 should be a gruelling sprint race. No ifs or buts!
(1) It was a terrible post.

(2) I do not watch a lot of Sports-Prototype racing, but I did see most of what was shown here of '11 Le Mans. I remember thinking "If you condense that to an hour and a half, that is what a GP should be."

(3) Do you realise, a "gruelling sprint race" is actually a condensed Sports-Prototype race?

Do you recognise that, if it was actually greulling, competitiors won't be able to keep it up for 300km/1.5 hours? Going at 10/10ths all the way means the race isn't long, or gruelling, enough?

Fundamentally, deep down, some of you have to recognise that top level motorsport is a drawn out, grinding, bore.
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Old 5 May 2013, 14:51 (Ref:3243104)   #274
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Thank you for this in depth analysis of everybody's errors in reasoning. Since you seem to address every issue, I take it you are content with my choice of Paul Hogan to play Webber?
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Old 6 May 2013, 04:17 (Ref:3243338)   #275
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(1) It was a terrible post.

(2) I do not watch a lot of Sports-Prototype racing, but I did see most of what was shown here of '11 Le Mans. I remember thinking "If you condense that to an hour and a half, that is what a GP should be."

(3) Do you realise, a "gruelling sprint race" is actually a condensed Sports-Prototype race?

Do you recognise that, if it was actually greulling, competitiors won't be able to keep it up for 300km/1.5 hours? Going at 10/10ths all the way means the race isn't long, or gruelling, enough?

Fundamentally, deep down, some of you have to recognise that top level motorsport is a drawn out, grinding, bore.
No, formerF1champ:
(1)Spritles’ post was right on the money, and still is.
(2)Grand Prix are currently condensed Sports-Prototype race as it features all the equipment management issues (tyres) that you would expect to see in a WEC event.
The whole point of a 300 km, 2 hour (actually) event is that very few individuals are capable of driving an F1 car at 10/10ths for that length of time.
When I watch MotoGP, I know I am watching the best riders in the world, the bikes are difficult to ride, they can race for the whole race distance, and the riders themselves make a huge difference to the performance of the bike, Stoner, Pedroso, Lorenzo and now Marquez.
Marquez hunting Lorenzo down over a full race and passing him on the last corner of the Spanish GP over the week end was racing at the highest level. You can see the bikes squirming and breaking traction under braking, acceleration and cornering loads. Magnificent to watch.
Equally Pol Espagoro catching and passing Nakagami for third place in the Moto2 GP was preceded by a magnificent dice. Not one tyre sop between them!

DRS has fixed the parade problem, now give them tyres that they can race on and that reward excellence! The skill should be on balancing a grip limited (hard) tyre that is more than capable of lasting the race for 300km, not managing and changing degrading tyres at 7/10ths for 2 hours, yawn.
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