Ranking the drivers

[spider]

Ok - got into a chat with some buddies on this. I'm of the belief there are four tiers in which the f1 grid sit into in terms of driver talent. I wondered how others saw it?

There really are only 4 / 5 absolutely top-line drivers out there: Lewis, Fernando, Sebastian, Daniel and Max.

For me there's then a clear jump to the 2nd tier - drivers who can put together a very solid result in the right circumstances- Jenson (in the dry he's 3rd tier for me), the Nico's, Sergio, Bottas, even Carlos perhaps

Then a 3rd tier of kimi, Massa, Grosjean, Kvyat

The 4th tier is sadly now the rest. Perhaps Pascal is too much of a unknown to rate.

Just wondered how others see it?

[steve_r]

It's difficult to be black and white with these things.

I would not put Daniel Ricciardo and Max Verstappen in the same tier as the 3 WDCs you mention just yet. That is not to say they wont be thought of in the same terms as Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso in the future.

[bella]

for me, you can only rank drivers as follows:

1. holy crap god given hero talent and they know how to use it
- eg lewis hamilton, fernando alonso
2. really bloody clever people who happen to be really good at driving too
- eg nico rosberg
3. really good drivers who aren't mensa-level intelligent
- eg pastor maldonado
4. really good drivers who don't really want to be racing drivers
- eg some "sons of", some really rich kids.
5. decent drivers who are incredibly well prepared and have "optimised" every area of their lives to get the most out of their ability
- eg will stevens, max chilton
6. decent drivers.
- eg everyone else

that's ranked in order of "wow" factor, i suppose, or how "important" i feel their talents are (ymmv on that particular bit - it's personal). nobody is any less or more worthy of praise or appreciation, or no more or less due criticism either.

anything more detailed than that needs 100% knowledge of 100% of each and every drivers life, personality, what they've worked against, through, around, etc etc. and that's simply not possible.

[Greem]

Oh bella, stop derailing threads with sensible list criteria

[bella]

sorry that was surprising clarity of thought for a monday, in my own defence i was just expanding on the original post

does it count as controversial if i think vettel is more of a really clever bloke who happens to be really good at driving than a category one hero?

[ScotsBrutesFan]

I have to create a ranking every season ... it's for the fantasy competition.

You want to try ranking as a 1-22 and not just in groupings. It's alot more difficult than you might think.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by bella

does it count as controversial if i think vettel is more of a really clever bloke who happens to be really good at driving than a category one hero?

Not at all. I think that's very fair. It's your assessment of Pastor Maldonado that I might have a little problem with. I don't think I'm just jumping on a bandwagon if I say I might put it more as "fairly good driver who is close to the loony end of the spectrum".

[BSchneiderFan]

Controversial, perhaps, but I'd put both Alonso and Räikkönen into the category of very quick drivers whose best days are behind them.

[bauble]

Those who are not as good as they look.

Those who are better than they look.

Look.

[chunterer]

I agree with the OP and Bella.

You have the true top liner superstars (preferably not in the modetn day 'celeb' sense) who are always going to deliver do something special etc

So they are only Ham, Alonso and Vettel at present. Rosberg cannot seem to maintain a truly top level for a whole year like those 3 so I don't know whether to say he is a flawed ace or a seriously good no.2!

You have the potential top guys knocking on door aggravating the established stars eg Ricciardo, Verstappen, Sainz and Vandoorne...

Then you have 'jury out' Have done great things on their day but never consistently and we are still unsure if it's down to then or circumstances such as Hulk, Checo, Bottas, Magnussen.

Then you have the 'professional racing driver' who's had had a great career best days behind then but are safe hand. Kimi, Jense, Massa.

Then the make up the numbers brigade.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Sorry guys but if you maintain Alonso should still be in that top tier then Ricciardo has to be in, he's been truly masterful of late and appears to be a complete Grand Prix driver with no glaring weaknesses (even Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso have over the years shown more mental fragility than Ricciardo appears to have shown in his career). Also, surely Button should be knocking on the door? The only times there are any meaningful gaps between himself and Alonso (either way, I must add) are almost invariably due to circumstance. He outscored Hamilton in their time together as teammates and late 2011 was the only driver on a level near to Vettel's. It won't be that long before Verstappen will surely be up here too.

But right now if I could sign any GP driver for my team, I would sign Ricciardo up.

[S griffin]

I have to say every driver on the grid is good enough to warrant a place. Even Haryanto hasn't done too bad so far, and he did alright in GP2

I agree with the top liners in Vettel, Fred, Hamilton, Ricciardo and Max. Bottas has the potential, but I don't think he'll quite make it, I see him more reaching a peak as a reliable no.2 or perhaps 1.5

[BSchneiderFan]

Ricciardo is showing admirable mental toughness. You can see why he might have really lost his way after Barcelona and Monaco, but he's still showing strongly. I'd be surprised if he ends the year without a win.

[dsg]

Sorry for going off on a tangent a little but I am really looking forward to when Hamilton and Verstappen have a decent on track battle. Both drivers seem to have extreme "give no quarter" attitudes willing to win at all costs or burn the world trying.

Other drivers such as Vettel, Ricciardo, Alonso, Button and Sainz etc while every bit as skilled seem to take a more rational long game approach. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work in modern F1 racing.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by dsg

Sorry for going off on a tangent a little but I am really looking forward to when Hamilton and Verstappen have a decent on track battle. Both drivers seem to have extreme "give no quarter" attitudes willing to win at all costs or burn the world trying.

Would like to see that too.

[Kempi]

Lots of debris and all involved will be fuming. The other drivers mentioned will continue to race. Seems quite an easy prediction.

Verstappen could only be as spectacular in his overtakes because the others did not find it worth it yet risking a crash. He is always very late with his dive bombs and this will not work anymore with someone as Lewis and even Vettel or Alonsp (once he is in a positin to fight again).

[stripedcat]

Top Tier

Alonso is probably still the strongest all rounder. Probably not the fastest in qualifying, but at race pace - he has something(rather like Prost and Mansell). Although, it has got to be sad that age is now not on his side. A real shame - as this was the youngest who took on Schumi. He hasn't had much luck with his choice of equipment. Might be coming to the end of his time in F1.

Next up - it's between Hamilton and Vettel. There are very closely matched on talent. I think Vettel is probably the best at qualifying(when in a top flight car). They did have some history in the lower formulas. They do seem to respect one another nowadays. Tricky to say who is better. Hamilton(despite his talent) can be very rash at times, and do some silly mistakes. Vettel does seem to have a cooler head.

I'd probably say that Danny might be behind Hamilton and Vettel at the moment. I think he probably has the high potential to be WDC. He seems quite well balanced(making few mistakes), he beat Vettel in his first year at Red Bull, he's coping well with having Max as his teammate, had three wins already and is able to pull off some super moves(his one of Lewis at Hungary at turn 3 was superb). The Red Bull might be the right place for him next year.

Max has huge potential - but, he is still very young. He has made a few mistakes. I do think he(much like Danny) will probably be a future WDC. Here's the thing though - in a competitive Red Bull with him and Danny going for it - there could be fireworks. Still a lot to learn(which might give Danny the upper hand), but has decent speed and racecraft. He'll get there.

Kimi is probably next up. He was probably one of the natural fastest F1 drivers there ever was - in his McLaren days. I think with his return to F1, he showed more maturity, perhaps lacked some of the outright pace of old, but did seem better at racecraft. Nowadays though, he seems to be overshadowed by Vettel and before that - Alonso.

Jenson is probably next up. Very good in changeable conditions. If finds a perfect setup for his car - he is mega. If not - he can't drive around it, and then on his backfoot.

I'd say that Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel and Button are all very good in the wet. They seem to have a good feel for it.

I suspect that Kimi, Jenson and Alonso might probably be on their way out. They don't seem to have the right equipment to do the job(except for Kimi - and he has no luck with it).

Second tier

Bottas. Good speed and does have some good results in terms of podiums. I don't think he has the potential to be WDC though. A steady fast driver - but no championship contender.

Rosberg. Well - you can't right him off. Despite going up against Hamilton - this year he has really upped his game. In front of Hamilton - I think most of the times he can beat him(unless it's wet weather or track that Hamilton is really good at - like Canada or Austin). Can he beat Hamilton over a whole season though - a few races ago - I would have said yes, but now - hmmm. I think he stands at places like Austria and Brazil.


Hulkenberg. Clearly has some decent talent. But, he didn't get snapped up by a decent team. I think if he had a chance at the WDC - then it has passed. Fast still, but it doesn't look it is going to happen for him.

Peréz. Fast and capable of podiums. However, I don't think he is capable of the WDC.

Sainz. Fast - the jury's still out though.

[Razzzor]

Well rating the bunch, this is a really rough quick one:

Hamilton
Vettel
Ricciardo
Alonso
Rosberg
Verstappen

Grosjean
Button
Perez
Sainz
Hulkenberg
Magnussen
Bottas
Raikkonen
Kyvat
Wehrlein
Massa
Palmer
Nasr
Gutiérrez
Ericsson
Haryanto

The top 6 are all very, very close. In fact Hammy, Vettel, Alonso I'm only going by their past results. But in order to not get swayed by their stats, you've got to say if you extended McLaren to a four car team and add Ricciardo and Verstappen to the team - would they beat Alonso? Yes I think they regularly would. Alonso can barely manage Button these days. In a midfield car Alonso just doesn't seem to be pushing like he does in a top 4 team. Still top 6, but the last couple years he's gone from #1 to maybe #4? When is the last time Alonso deservedly got DOTR? Maybe once in two years?

There's a question mark over Vettel as well after Ricciardo properly beat him as teammates. If Ricciardo joined Ferrari, I wouldn't be surprised to see him beat Vettel. But that just shows how even those top guys are. And I think Rosberg doesn't get the marks he deserves. Sure he has the odd poor race like Monaco/Canada, but now he's bounced back with another dominant win while Hamilton flounders around failing to do a single qualifying lap. Schumacher couldn't keep up with him for three years.

The next batch are all very close and could easily move up and down. I put Perez up there based on his performances this year, but wouldn't have had him that highly in previous years, until he became teammates with Hulk.

Sainz and Kyvat have potential to be higher, certainly others seem to rate Sainz highly. Don't know enough about Verlane (Wehrlein).

I have Magnussen quite highly because I think given good machinery he'll show what he can do, and could push further up the list in a few years.

[FAS33]

I want to see Ricciardo in the same machinery as Hamilton.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by FAS33

I want to see Ricciardo in the same machinery as Hamilton.

I think a lot if us would like to see Hamilton up against another driver.

How many of us would also like to see Rosberg in a different team/up against another driver now too?