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Old 25 Jan 2017, 16:19 (Ref:3705032)   #101
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Old 25 Jan 2017, 20:39 (Ref:3705080)   #102
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Originally Posted by littleman View Post
Ecclestone did nothing for the sport, ...
I'm afraid that this is very wide of the mark. There are many balanced summaries out there, which are much closer.

Certainly time for a change and the later era of CVC ownership where he do their bidding was not where I wanted to see the sport go.

However, Bernie is responsible for this being a popular sport. Viewing figures down, yes. His fault, maybe. Why were they high in the first place, and remain higher than most? He organised this sport, got stability for (some) teams. And got it on telly, regularly, which is why most of the people round here are even watching and now upset with him.

And then there is Sid Watkins. Sid is Bernie's 'fault'. Nothing for the sport?
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Old 25 Jan 2017, 20:56 (Ref:3705083)   #103
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I agree 100 percent. Bernie built the sport and truly did make it globally popular. I don't take anything away from his efforts. He is 87 years old and it truly is time to retire. This is just a changing of the guard. I think this change will be be obviously different, but refreshing at the same time. Liberty's philosophy really does sound exciting doesn't it????


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Old 26 Jan 2017, 07:12 (Ref:3705153)   #104
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You're a very amusing fellow.

I am sure such as Rudolf Uhlenhaut (July 1906-May 1989, Enzo Ferrari, Louis Stanley, Colin Chapman, John Cooper, Frank Williams, Robin Herd, Ken Tyrell, Peter Berthon and Raymond Mays, the Maserati bros, Renault, Honda, et al might rather disagree!

Worth perhaps assimilating the history of Brabham and Tauranac's Motor Racing Developments Limited?

Here:

When Ecclestone finished up in sole control of Brabham, both Black Jack and Ron had departed (Tauranac stayed for one year after Brabham had departed. Gordon Murray remained until 1986.
Right,so the owners,& a few full time staff were there all year,but the travelling circus were part time,& either unpaid,or poorly paid,doing it for the glamour.Most of the others you mention had to earn money from selling cars to the public,to spend on racing.
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Old 26 Jan 2017, 08:52 (Ref:3705171)   #105
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Right,so the owners,& a few full time staff were there all year,but the travelling circus were part time,& either unpaid,or poorly paid,doing it for the glamour.Most of the others you mention had to earn money from selling cars to the public,to spend on racing.
From such as Norman Dewey onwards, support staff have been paid.

Also-Ran teams did indeed use volunteer support staff. Not for long, of course, as they tended to fail.

See here:

(Just one citation of a number)

Of course such as Mercedes, Ferrari, Maserati made and make money from manufacturing and selling cars! Motor Racing was and remains excellent PR (If you win!) and additionally provides an advanced test bed.

Chapman of course didn't! Which led to his various financial sheenanigans.

Tony Rudd did straighten him out a bit...

BRM: Well, I cannot recall Rubery Owen making motor cars. Bits for manufacturers, yes. Tony Vandervall (Vanwall) made "Thin Wall" bearings (Shell bearings).
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Old 26 Jan 2017, 10:36 (Ref:3705193)   #106
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What if Mr E was to save Manor F1 by buying them out? That way Mr E could still be in F1?? Hmmm...



A little off topic I know, but Sergio Marchionne met with Donald Trump today.



Maybe Marchionne was asking Trump for advice on he could make Ferrari great again??
Or begging him not to hammer them for emmsions dodgyness ( aledgedly)
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Old 26 Jan 2017, 16:18 (Ref:3705261)   #107
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Or begging him not to hammer them for emmsions dodgyness ( aledgedly)
totally!
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Old 27 Jan 2017, 02:23 (Ref:3705430)   #108
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Or begging him not to hammer them for emmsions dodgyness ( aledgedly)
Quite the opposite. Trump is congratulating him for being a smart businessman for working around those pesky regulations!

(Sorry, I try to not post political content, but I actually can see a potential nugget of truth in my comment above)

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Old 27 Jan 2017, 03:33 (Ref:3705439)   #109
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I'm afraid that this is very wide of the mark. There are many balanced summaries out there, which are much closer.

Certainly time for a change and the later era of CVC ownership where he do their bidding was not where I wanted to see the sport go.

However, Bernie is responsible for this being a popular sport. Viewing figures down, yes. His fault, maybe. Why were they high in the first place, and remain higher than most? He organised this sport, got stability for (some) teams. And got it on telly, regularly, which is why most of the people round here are even watching and now upset with him.

And then there is Sid Watkins. Sid is Bernie's 'fault'. Nothing for the sport?
I've been following the sport for 20 years and only found out about Bernie's impact early in his career relatively recently. If you came into the sport in the late 90's or later, you probably only caught his crazy exploits in the news.
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Old 27 Jan 2017, 07:07 (Ref:3705466)   #110
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So Mr E is US$29 million richer today. Sold some of his shares in Formula 1.

Is that enough to start a breakaway series?
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Old 27 Jan 2017, 07:35 (Ref:3705473)   #111
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I am possibly in a minority of one but I don't judge any sport's appeal by the sole metric of its TV coverage. I actually far preferred F1 with less than saturation TV coverage (and its consequent hysterical fandom ) because back in the day I could go and see two or three F1 races in UK , at affordable prices and wander around the paddock as I wished .

I don't especially enjoy TV motor sport and am amazed so many people do. Being spoon-fed 2D images which the director has decided I should see and being told what I am seeing by some over adrenalised commentator does not good entertainment make.
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Old 27 Jan 2017, 10:05 (Ref:3705508)   #112
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I've been following the sport for 20 years and only found out about Bernie's impact early in his career relatively recently. If you came into the sport in the late 90's or later, you probably only caught his crazy exploits in the news.
You make a very salient point and I am sure this is why so many are critical of Bernie. I have been around the sport throughout this era and see the vast changes that have come in Motorsport as whole, not all them because of him of course.

Certainly in the '50s we could not have envisaged the world of F1 as it now exists

He changed the way F1 was run in mid 20th century to the present model and it is now up to the new triumvirate to change it to a 21st century model.
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Old 27 Jan 2017, 14:22 (Ref:3705571)   #113
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So Mr E is US$29 million richer today. Sold some of his shares in Formula 1.

Is that enough to start a breakaway series?
No, but he could help the Manor team survive rather than allowing his kids to squander all of his money ..
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Old 27 Jan 2017, 18:33 (Ref:3705619)   #114
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No, but he could help the Manor team survive rather than allowing his kids to squander all of his money ..


+1

Certainly Manor are more frugal with the dosh, but then they need to be
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Old 27 Jan 2017, 23:34 (Ref:3705684)   #115
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No, but he could help the Manor team survive rather than allowing his kids to squander all of his money ..
Agree.

I had this crazy thought the other day, where Ecclestone and Dennis buy out Manor. And in 2020, won the constructors and drivers championship! Wouldn't that be a story for F1!?
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Old 27 Jan 2017, 23:38 (Ref:3705685)   #116
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The worst part about Bernie being sacked, we won't see his daughters Tamara and Petra around anymore!

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Old 28 Jan 2017, 01:35 (Ref:3705701)   #117
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They're not that good looking, to be honest.
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Old 28 Jan 2017, 04:47 (Ref:3705719)   #118
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You make a very salient point...
I don't know if that's true because I had to look that up.
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Old 28 Jan 2017, 06:36 (Ref:3705721)   #119
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They're not that good looking, to be honest.
Look again when you get my age!
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Old 28 Jan 2017, 23:07 (Ref:3706219)   #120
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Yes Mike, but I think the Father in law would be a pain in the ass...
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Old 28 Jan 2017, 23:53 (Ref:3706268)   #121
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I've been following the sport for 20 years and only found out about Bernie's impact early in his career relatively recently. If you came into the sport in the late 90's or later, you probably only caught his crazy exploits in the news.
Yes, this is a reason why someone might not understand the context especially if there hasn't been any research, not even google or Wikipedia. Such a sweeping statement made in a public place is likely to be rebutted.
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Old 29 Jan 2017, 00:33 (Ref:3706310)   #122
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The boy actually did really well to earn his money...It needs a revamp which he is not prepared to do. Bit like my Mum, at 89, she wouldn't upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10...
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Old 29 Jan 2017, 10:32 (Ref:3706828)   #123
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She was right, you know. Windows 10 is pretty terrible.
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Old 29 Jan 2017, 12:21 (Ref:3706888)   #124
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She was right, you know. Windows 10 is pretty terrible.
Windows 10 is excellent for gaming, though with the 64 Bit version of XP you didn't need an a emulator to play DOS games but I digress.
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Old 29 Jan 2017, 14:46 (Ref:3707023)   #125
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Goodbye! At Last...

I'm annoyed my Atari St emulator won't work properly on Windows 10. If only there was one of those things that could adapt it
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