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Old 23 Mar 2011, 17:47 (Ref:2851990)   #16
H.Eng
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Hi Allen
I have the original chassis records that state that they only built 2 chassis for the A2, and the planned third tub was never completed
so it looks like Arrows advertised a third chassis and may be completed it as a show car maybe when they found a buyer???
on another point we are in the process of rebuilding A2/1 does any one out there have any close up pictures of engine/rear suspension/gearbox area, without the bodywork?
we are really struggling to get close up detailed pictures, there must be loads somewhere!!!


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I'm sorry but I must disagree. At the time that A2/3 was advertised by Arrows, one A2 was in their collection and another was in Germany. It is true that only two cars were completed in 1979 and that only two cars raced but the third car was evidently completed later and sold as I have described.

I can see that it would be convenient for A2/3 to be called A2/2 so that it can claim some race history but it simply isn't so.
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Old 23 Mar 2011, 19:55 (Ref:2852078)   #17
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allenbrown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridallenbrown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
How interesting. What details of each car do those records give?
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Old 24 Mar 2011, 12:25 (Ref:2852431)   #18
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How interesting. What details of each car do those records give?
just chassis completed and number allocated, and it just had a note saying, 3rd chassis not completed, and stating that they went back to A1 chassis for the rest of the season, and consentrating on designing and building A3
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Old 24 Mar 2011, 13:00 (Ref:2852451)   #19
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allenbrown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridallenbrown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Arrows did stick with the A2 right to the end of the season and sold off all but one of their A1s for Aurora. The one they kept (later in Oliver's collection for many years) was only raced at Imola and in Canada.
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Old 10 Jul 2011, 22:18 (Ref:2924778)   #20
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So we know where A2-1 is and A2-3 is the bitsa in Japan what about A2-2?
A2-2 is on display in the entrance of the Nuerburgring Museum, I checked the chassis number today. Is it owned by the Warsteiner brewery?
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Old 11 Jul 2011, 00:06 (Ref:2924830)   #21
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Full house then! We know where they all are. Thanks "Funformula".
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Old 11 Jul 2011, 11:53 (Ref:2925011)   #22
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Full house then! We know where they all are. Thanks "Funformula".
Hmmmm, Iīm not so sure anymore.
According to Allenīs website A2-1 was Patreses car and A2-2 was driven by Mass.
A2-2 has a modified roll-hoop, there had been about 15cm added for a better protection of Massīs head. The car in the Nuerburgring Museum doesnīt have that modification and there are no signs of welding on it but the chassis plate says clearly A2-2.
I donīt see a reason, why this rollhoop should have been removed for a showcar, I donīt think that someone would spend more work and effort on it than he had to.
The car was clearly resprayed at one stage as one can see on several details.
So only a guess: Could the Nuerburgring car be A2-3 with a chassis plate that gives him some "racing history"
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Old 11 Jul 2011, 16:42 (Ref:2925119)   #23
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The Arrows shown here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Arrows_A2_1.jpg is the one from Nuerburgring.
Try google for pictures of Arrows A2 and you will find that the Mass Arrows with the modified hoop still exists and is on display somewhere, same for the Patrese car. Both have no engine cover and are in much more accurate Warsteiner livery.
So if the japanese car hasnīt found his way back to Europe there may be a fourth car (Iīm just kidding)
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Old 11 Jul 2011, 20:57 (Ref:2925254)   #24
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I was in the company of A2-1 today. So we know here all 3 are now but not which one is which out of A2-2 and A2-3............
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Old 11 Jul 2011, 21:22 (Ref:2925268)   #25
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So when you were in company of A2-1 today then the Nuerburgring car must be A2-3 (or shall we say A2-2"B")

According to Allen Brown there are now two Arrows A2 in Germany, right?
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Old 11 Jul 2011, 23:11 (Ref:2925327)   #26
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allenbrown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridallenbrown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I am very wary of trying to work by process of elimination. Just because we know the current location of a car wearing a particular chassis number doesn't mean we can reach conclusions about any other car.

For example, I have just completed a dossier on a Brabham BT25. The easy way would have been to say that there were only two and that we know one is in Australia so the Donington car must be the other one. I wasn't happy with that approach and instead looked at provenance, rivet patterns and for repair damage for a reported fuel tank explosion. All checked out so the car was completely authentic - but it justified the effort to make all those checks.

So on the A2s, can we look at provenance instead and see where each car traces back to? For example, would somebody be wiling to give the last few owners of the car at H Engineering?
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Old 11 Jul 2011, 23:59 (Ref:2925342)   #27
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The car at H eng is straight forward.....I thought you might have known that Allen?
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Old 12 Jul 2011, 08:21 (Ref:2925400)   #28
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What information can we take for granted?

A2-1 Jackie Oliverīs car until 200? Currently H-Engineering!!!

A2-2 in Germany at least around the early 80īs, at some point in Japan???

A2-3 sold by Arrows in 1983 then went to a collector until 1992 then Japan???
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Old 12 Jul 2011, 17:47 (Ref:2925678)   #29
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Originally Posted by allenbrown View Post
I am very wary of trying to work by process of elimination. Just because we know the current location of a car wearing a particular chassis number doesn't mean we can reach conclusions about any other car.

For example, I have just completed a dossier on a Brabham BT25. The easy way would have been to say that there were only two and that we know one is in Australia so the Donington car must be the other one. I wasn't happy with that approach and instead looked at provenance, rivet patterns and for repair damage for a reported fuel tank explosion. All checked out so the car was completely authentic - but it justified the effort to make all those checks.

So on the A2s, can we look at provenance instead and see where each car traces back to? For example, would somebody be wiling to give the last few owners of the car at H Engineering?
Hi Allan

the car at our workshop is A2/1 (fitted with the mass roll hoop!!)Click image for larger version

Name:	a2  no1 001.jpg
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ID:	33817

Click image for larger version

Name:	a2  no1 002.jpg
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Size:	510.7 KB
ID:	33818and was from the jackie oliver collection,
a couple of pictures of the car very nearly finished, if you pm me i can give you owners from oliver for your records.
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Old 13 Jul 2011, 11:58 (Ref:2925961)   #30
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So now we learned that a roll hoop gives no clue to the chassis number.
Did you changed the hoop throughout the restauration or was the car already delivered with the "wrong" hoop?
I found pictures from the London Motor Show 1986 where the Patrese car was on exibition with the correct lower hoop.
So at one stage the hoop must have been changed for unknown reasons.
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