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Old 11 Dec 2017, 18:52 (Ref:3786356)   #16
Jack65
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Suggestion that Holden may try and force team to use the V6 in 2019. Holden may block V8 to promote V6 in 2019

Wonder if this could be considered a restriction on trade and catch the eye of the Australian Competition & Consumer Commission?
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Old 11 Dec 2017, 19:09 (Ref:3786361)   #17
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From the article:
The 3.6-litre twin-turbo V6, which has been co-developed by GM Racing and factory Holden team Triple Eight, will only be available to teams on an annual lease.

Although it is claimed that the scheme will save teams money because the yearly lease fee per engine includes scheduled maintenance and replacement, with no development costs, some have complained that the arrangement makes the sale of cars more complicated.
Well then, this is getting a little messy. Unable to run a V8, you'll never own your V6 engine, and you're not allowed to develop them either? And then when you go to sell the car, it either comes with a necessary contract to get engines from GM/Red Bull or without an engine? Wow, if only Ford had an alternative. Or even Nissan. There'd be teams knocking their door down...
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Old 11 Dec 2017, 21:14 (Ref:3786403)   #18
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And this is new news how?

GRM and Erebus dont own the engines in their cars now
Nor do Tekno or Team 18. Or BJR soon.

WAU seems to be the only complainant...
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Old 11 Dec 2017, 22:30 (Ref:3786418)   #19
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Originally Posted by GTRMagic View Post
And this is new news how?

GRM and Erebus dont own the engines in their cars now
Nor do Tekno or Team 18. Or BJR soon.

WAU seems to be the only complainant...
But they all have the option to own the engines should they so desire.

This appears to remove that option.
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Old 11 Dec 2017, 22:32 (Ref:3786420)   #20
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Currently teams can build their own engines, and if not they they have the choice of a number of suppliers, namely KRE, Noonan and WAU. In the new world, they wold be compelled to source from the designated supplier. Of course in a perfect world, there would be the option of switching brands, but no one is going to switch to an out of production Altima or Falcon.
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Old 11 Dec 2017, 22:33 (Ref:3786421)   #21
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Can understand the frustration for Walkinshaw as their engines builder becomes redundant unless they change manufacturer (which I'm sure they're trying to do) , and they lose the lease income from grm and Erebus.
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Old 12 Dec 2017, 00:51 (Ref:3786432)   #22
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Be interesting to see whether customers get provided engines to the same spec as T8 or are they maybe a revision behind?

The T8/GM partnership has the potential to be a really good idea, provided it isn't abused
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Old 12 Dec 2017, 01:33 (Ref:3786442)   #23
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Be interesting to see whether customers get provided engines to the same spec as T8 or are they maybe a revision behind?
Nobody is going to engineer 2 specifications of engine, and with the lease arrangement everybody will have the same, unlike currently where there are people running old stuff by choice...
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Old 12 Dec 2017, 01:52 (Ref:3786445)   #24
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Initially no, but over time there will be upgrades and will these be offered to all or will 888 only offer engines a generation behind? There are definitely different versions of suspension, recall Charlie and Tekno running packages a generation or two behind what 888 were using.

Last edited by Jack65; 12 Dec 2017 at 02:03. Reason: gr
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Old 12 Dec 2017, 03:20 (Ref:3786455)   #25
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Initially no, but over time there will be upgrades and will these be offered to all or will 888 only offer engines a generation behind? There are definitely different versions of suspension, recall Charlie and Tekno running packages a generation or two behind what 888 were using.
The suspension choice seems to have been financial, not availability. For example, Mr Kostecki’s stand in car from 2016 had series 5 uprights aboard, while the car it replaced, and the new one built to replace that, continued with series 4 uprights.
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Old 12 Dec 2017, 03:21 (Ref:3786456)   #26
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Can understand the frustration for Walkinshaw as their engines builder becomes redundant unless they change manufacturer (which I'm sure they're trying to do) , and they lose the lease income from grm and Erebus.
So don’t lose the HRT status and you might still be a strong source of customer supply

This has been coming for a while...
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Old 12 Dec 2017, 03:38 (Ref:3786459)   #27
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Whether it was HRT or 888, having one supplier in a monopolistic position isn't good for the category long term. If all engines are from the one source and of the same specification, then one less variable. While I can't recall 888 cars been wanting for horsepower, there probably have been times when others have had an advantage.
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Old 12 Dec 2017, 04:43 (Ref:3786461)   #28
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Wonder if this could be considered a restriction on trade and catch the eye of the Australian Competition & Consumer Commission?
Not at all on either account

Holden give permission for the car to be homologated to the specs they approve of. If they don't want their car to have a V8 in 2019, they are perfectly within their rights to deny this, they are the one's giving permission for the ZB bodyshape to run in the first place. This is nothing new, has been going on in touring car racing for decades.


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Whether it was HRT or 888, having one supplier in a monopolistic position isn't good for the category long term
Isn't this what some people have been crying out for for years? Engines coming from the one source?
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Old 12 Dec 2017, 04:52 (Ref:3786466)   #29
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Jack65 View Post
Whether it was HRT or 888, having one supplier in a monopolistic position isn't good for the category long term. If all engines are from the one source and of the same specification, then one less variable. While I can't recall 888 cars been wanting for horsepower, there probably have been times when others have had an advantage.
Actually if you ignore the racing impact and just look at the fiscal argument, having one engine developed and everybody equal should enable more people to win than 3 parties all spending money to end up at the same place anyway. Plus leasing the engines mean a fixed cost which should mean there are no haves and have nots, and people can plan.

Besides, 888 hasn't made engines and will not be making these. They are going from KRE to GM motorsport. Noonan will be out of Supercars next year with BJR moving to KRE. so WP would be the only other choice practically.

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Old 12 Dec 2017, 05:06 (Ref:3786471)   #30
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Isn't this what some people have been crying out for for years? Engines coming from the one source?
Absolutely. One engine spec. One price.
One reliability.
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