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Old 25 Mar 2013, 22:04 (Ref:3224692)   #1
iceman-1987
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iceman-1987 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
HONDA CIVIC 2013 vs HONDA ACCORD 2000

hey guys i have a questions!

yest in monza there was the old wonderfull honda accord 2000 with whom tarquini raced in btcc in last gold year.

my question is:

if honda accord 2000 could ran against honda civic 2013 who do u think it would win?

honestly i have no idea
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Old 25 Mar 2013, 22:13 (Ref:3224698)   #2
BertMk2
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BertMk2 has a real shot at the podium!BertMk2 has a real shot at the podium!BertMk2 has a real shot at the podium!BertMk2 has a real shot at the podium!BertMk2 has a real shot at the podium!
Civic - tyres, brakes, suspension etc etc have all moved on since the Accord was built. The Super Tourers were the 'golden era' of touring cars but technology moves on (especially so in motorsport) and the new generation of cars is quicker. The same is true in rallying - Group B was the 'golden era' but the current WR cars can set stage times as quick or quicker due to superior power delivery, suspension, brakes and so on.

The super tourers still win on sound though
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Old 25 Mar 2013, 22:44 (Ref:3224727)   #3
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redshoes should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridredshoes should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridredshoes should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Despite the increases in technology current S2000 cars are still not as quick as Super Tourers were in period.

Monza pole time for the Euro STC in 2000 was 1m53 (Peter Kox in an Accord). Tarquini's 2013 WTCC qualifying time was 1m58. I don't know if the circuit layout has changed significantly in that time.
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Old 25 Mar 2013, 23:06 (Ref:3224734)   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redshoes View Post
Despite the increases in technology current S2000 cars are still not as quick as Super Tourers were in period.

Monza pole time for the Euro STC in 2000 was 1m53 (Peter Kox in an Accord). Tarquini's 2013 WTCC qualifying time was 1m58. I don't know if the circuit layout has changed significantly in that time.
As someone not old enough to have enjoyed the Super Tourers first had this could be rubbish. But from the bits and pieces of footage i have seen, they appear much quicker down the straights. Maybe that is why they were quicker round Monza, maybe around a smaller, tighter track, it would be more even.

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Old 26 Mar 2013, 21:56 (Ref:3225280)   #5
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Originally Posted by redshoes View Post
Despite the increases in technology current S2000 cars are still not as quick as Super Tourers were in period.

Monza pole time for the Euro STC in 2000 was 1m53 (Peter Kox in an Accord). Tarquini's 2013 WTCC qualifying time was 1m58. I don't know if the circuit layout has changed significantly in that time.
they changed the first 2 chicanes after the estc event.

anyway Tarquini set the pole time for 2001 with 1:54.676 in the accord
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Old 26 Mar 2013, 23:13 (Ref:3225321)   #6
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Maybe it's not precisely what you ask for, but it's quite interesting:

Track I've made comparisons on is Brands Hatch GP. It was rebuilt after 2002 (Dingle Dells/Sheene's corners), though I don't know really how much it affected the speed.

According to:
BTCC 2000: http://www.touringcars.net/results/2000/qual1.php
BTCC 2010: http://www.btcc.net/html/raceresults...0&season_id=53
WTCC 2010: http://www.fiawtcc.com/events?idSeason=19&idEvent=87

In 2000, on the old track, the ST's from BTCC, pole time was 1:27.9, with the top Honda Accord doing 1:28.5.

For BTCC 2010 on the modified track the pole time was 1:31.6 while top Honda had 1:32.0.
It was Civic S2000, though perhaps the specs have evolved through time and possible differenced from BTCC/WTCC rulesets.

WTCC 2010's pole time was 1:32.4.

Though the question of the modifications makes the comparison difficult, I believe that ST's were about 1,5-2 seconds faster on that circuit.
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Old 27 Mar 2013, 07:42 (Ref:3225404)   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarsCarsCars View Post
As someone not old enough to have enjoyed the Super Tourers first had this could be rubbish. But from the bits and pieces of footage i have seen, they appear much quicker down the straights. Maybe that is why they were quicker round Monza, maybe around a smaller, tighter track, it would be more even.

The Super Tourers are quicker, fact.

More power, lighter, more advanced suspension, better aero, grippier (although skinnier) tyres thanks to the raging tyre war, etc.

Compare it with the two Swedish tracks Knutstorp (slow) and Anderstorp (fast), both which have remained unchanged from Super Touring (1996-2002) to S2000 (2003-2012):

Knutstorp: http://www.ttadatabase.com/tracks.php?id=7
Super Touring lap record: 1:00.492
S2000 lap record: 1:00.571

Anderstorp: http://www.ttadatabase.com/tracks.php?id=1
Super Touring lap record: 1:37.057
S2000 lap record: 1:42.458
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Old 27 Mar 2013, 08:28 (Ref:3225412)   #8
iceman-1987
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iceman-1987 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
i didn't remind what was the pole position of monza 2001 when the track changed the first chicane anyway i talked with tarquini on fb and he said that the civic has an engine lot of more power and he thinks that civic is faster than 3/4 seconds
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Old 27 Mar 2013, 10:29 (Ref:3225455)   #9
werner
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werner should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridwerner should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by PawUloN View Post
It was Civic S2000, though perhaps the specs have evolved through time and possible differenced from BTCC/WTCC rulesets.
Current S2000-cars with their 1.6-turboengines are much more powerfull compared tho the 2.0 NA-engines the S2000-cars ran in 2010. I think maximum power-output has risen from ca. 290HP to ca. 310HP. But more importantly, the turbo-engine delivers power over a much wider bandwith of revs.

Old supertourers delivered well over 300HP in the end. And where quite a bit narrower. And a bit lighter as well. Therefore, i think accelerating and topspeed of those cars could very well be unmatched by the current S2000-cars. But due to improvements in tyres and suspensions, and mayby racingsurfaces of tracks as well, I think in the corners and at the brakes current cars will be faster.
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