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Old 7 May 2017, 09:41 (Ref:3731876)   #31
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Just for correction, he helped start a new race in competition to the Bathurst 1000, and this new race in 2016 was bigger than the 1996 Bathurst 1000.... no reason to think the 2016 Bathurst 1000 wouldn't have been as big as the 2016 Supercheap Auto 1000 was though if unfettled... I guess we'll never know?
i disagree

clearly there was a dispute, both sides have just as much claim

mature people accept both
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Old 7 May 2017, 09:47 (Ref:3731880)   #32
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both sides have just as much claim
What claim does the current Supercheap Auto 1000 have to anything that happened on the Mountain prior to the 1997 Primus 1000 Classic on October 19, 1997?
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Old 7 May 2017, 09:52 (Ref:3731881)   #33
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What claim does the current Supercheap Auto 1000 have to anything that happened on the Mountain prior to the 1997 Primus 1000 Classic on October 19, 1997?
just as much claim as anything that happened before then. they claim the cars the teams and the crowds and even now they are mature enough to claim both races as part of the history of the 1000

but lets assume you are right, then that makes TC even more awesome to create such an awesome event in less than a year, anothe reason we would want him back
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Old 7 May 2017, 10:18 (Ref:3731888)   #34
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but lets assume you are right, then that makes TC even more awesome to create such an awesome event in less than a year, anothe reason we would want him back
I don't disagree there, TC did a wonderful job talking that event over the line.

It was a great effort to get IMG to back a brand new race, to get the mayor & the council to partly breakaway from a 35 year partnership with the ARDC & Ch7 to let a competitor race on the same track, over the same distance, two weeks after the traditional event.
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Old 7 May 2017, 10:26 (Ref:3731891)   #35
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I don't disagree there, TC did a wonderful job talking that event over the line.

It was a great effort to get IMG to back a brand new race, to get the mayor & the council to partly breakaway from a 35 year partnership with the ARDC & Ch7 to let a competitor race on the same track, over the same distance, two weeks after the traditional event.
two weeks after the traditional weekend, but with the same teams and cars as the year before and under TEGA as per 1996

It was easy to convince the mayor because they knew the ARDC run event was poison.

What do the ARDC and Ryan Walkinshaw have in common, they both gave away the goose that laid the golden egg through poor performance
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Old 7 May 2017, 11:06 (Ref:3731895)   #36
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I'm with 155 all the way here, it's always been ridiculous i've thought to link the two, in reality very different, events.

Given the effort AVESCO at the time went to to get away from the traditional event, it's amazing the efforts that have gone on in the last 10-15 years to link them both. There is $$$ in "heritage" these days though....even if it's not yours.

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two weeks after the traditional weekend, but with the same teams and cars as the year before and under TEGA as per 1996
That doesn't make it the same race, just means there were common entrants.

The opening passage in the Chevron's 1997 "The Great Race" annual sums the whole thing up quite well.

It should be pointed out that in 1997 Peter Brock said he couldn't win his tenth in that years V8 enduro, and Tony Cochrane was even quoted at one point saying that their Bathurst was developing their own traditions for their own race.

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It was easy to convince the mayor because they knew the ARDC run event was poison.
You do realise it wasn't an "ARDC run event" at that time? It was a "Bathurst Event Management" event, that consisted of a three way partnership between the ARDC, Channel 7 and Bathurst City Council. The race didn't always have that ownership arrangement, but the three had worked together for that event since 1963, so the ARDC run event being poison is quite a laughable quote.

The council backing the V8 event, while retaining their interest in the traditional race, was more to do with the council doing what it should do, putting the region first. A second race, which was always going to attract big numbers, would benefit the town and the businesses. That had to come first.

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What do the ARDC and Ryan Walkinshaw have in common, they both gave away the goose that laid the golden egg through poor performance
What was the poor performance?

What do you think BEM should have done to avoid AVESCO going off and doing their own thing?
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Old 7 May 2017, 12:51 (Ref:3731917)   #37
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I'm with 155 all the way here, it's always been ridiculous i've thought to link the two, in reality very different, events.

Given the effort AVESCO at the time went to to get away from the traditional event, it's amazing the efforts that have gone on in the last 10-15 years to link them both. There is $$$ in "heritage" these days though....even if it's not yours.



That doesn't make it the same race, just means there were common entrants.

The opening passage in the Chevron's 1997 "The Great Race" annual sums the whole thing up quite well.

It should be pointed out that in 1997 Peter Brock said he couldn't win his tenth in that years V8 enduro, and Tony Cochrane was even quoted at one point saying that their Bathurst was developing their own traditions for their own race.



You do realise it wasn't an "ARDC run event" at that time? It was a "Bathurst Event Management" event, that consisted of a three way partnership between the ARDC, Channel 7 and Bathurst City Council. The race didn't always have that ownership arrangement, but the three had worked together for that event since 1963, so the ARDC run event being poison is quite a laughable quote.

The council backing the V8 event, while retaining their interest in the traditional race, was more to do with the council doing what it should do, putting the region first. A second race, which was always going to attract big numbers, would benefit the town and the businesses. That had to come first.



What was the poor performance?

What do you think BEM should have done to avoid AVESCO going off and doing their own thing?

sorry, got lost. Are you/or were you a member of the ARDC?

Sorry i will trust Bill Tuckey on this one in The official history of The Great Race Bathurst : 50 years.

Check
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Old 7 May 2017, 13:09 (Ref:3731928)   #38
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sorry, got lost. Are you/or were you a member of the ARDC?
Is this avoidance Peckstar? Why not address Racers points?

Avesco was quoted as saying they holding a new event with new traditions - why the backflip now?
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Old 7 May 2017, 13:19 (Ref:3731931)   #39
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Is this avoidance Peckstar? Why not address Racers points?

Avesco was quoted as saying they holding a new event with new traditions - why the backflip now?
No avoidance, just asking if there was a conflict of interest, you should do the same

History shows they havent held a new event, they run the same event with the same traditions.

they were forced to break tradition by a bunch of people who got themselves in a partnership with the devil(media company) and ruined a great long weekend
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Old 7 May 2017, 13:22 (Ref:3731932)   #40
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anyway off topic, argument wont be settled by any discussion. Hasnt been in 20 years of debating it so far. the side that lost are still bitter

TC is no longer a director of SEL, he wont be back, thats the key bit.

But even if he was, he has shown he can create some excellent events like Clipsal, Townsville (and bathurst 1000 according to ARDC members)
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Old 7 May 2017, 14:27 (Ref:3731941)   #41
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Are you/or were you a member of the ARDC?
Never been a member of the ARDC

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History shows they havent held a new event, they run the same event with the same traditions.
What are the same traditions?

As an example, do the organisers of the Hi Tec Oils Bathurst 6hr claim Ian & Leo Geoghegan as winners of their event?

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they were forced to break tradition by a bunch of people who got themselves in a partnership with the devil(media company) and ruined a great long weekend
One of the best twists i've heard, interesting take on things.
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Old 7 May 2017, 23:02 (Ref:3732049)   #42
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There is a saying history is written by the winners and that is definitely the case here.To say that the AVESCO race is not related to the line of Bathurst events is patently ridiculous.To discount the history of any sports event any time there is a change of organiser,TVs network or even competitor base does not happen.Even World Series Cricket Supertests are now considered as first class matches in cricket records.The best way of looking at this is that there were 2 races in 97 and 98.
History lesson.In 94 the ARDC,7 network and Bathurst Council formed the Bathurst Consortium to promote racing at Bathurst.The council retained the right to allow 1 meeting a year outside the consortium a clause that had its origins in the Easter motor cycle races.The ARDC could not negotiate with AVESCO and 10 because it was bound by the consortium.The ARDC signed onto the consortium as a way of getting an ATCC round at the track which turned out to be a financial disaster.The whole process was naive at best.If the ARDC was not bound by the consortium they may have done a deal with AVESCO but there certainly would have been no Super Touring 1000.
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Old 7 May 2017, 23:13 (Ref:3732053)   #43
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As an example, do the organisers of the Hi Tec Oils Bathurst 6hr claim Ian & Leo Geoghegan as winners of their event?

and that right there is the moment you prove you have no argument.
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Old 8 May 2017, 00:00 (Ref:3732057)   #44
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Apart from those who still have a chip on their shoulder from a war won and run nearly 20 years ago, think most people consider the Bathurst 500/1000 to be an event that has occurred annually since 1963 with 2 events held in parallel in 97/98. I think even the most ardent ARDC supporter would agree that the 1999 500km event was just a pale imitation.

A win in either is judged equally in the history book. Jim Richards is recognised universally as a 7 times winner including his 98 Volvo win and Larry Perkins as a 6 time winner with his 97 V8 win.

The biggest faux pas out of the whole war was allowing the NRL to flex its muscles and claim the traditional NSW October long weekend slot for its grand final. I'm sure many spectators preferred to stay over and cruise home on the Monday rather than drive back to Sydney on a school night.
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Old 8 May 2017, 01:31 (Ref:3732074)   #45
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sorry, got lost. Are you/or were you a member of the ARDC?

Sorry i will trust Bill Tuckey on this one in The official history of The Great Race Bathurst : 50 years.

Check
You do realise that Mr Tuckey did not write anything in that book post the chapter on the 1980 race.
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