Where to for Motorsport and F1.

[Mike Harte]

Hamilton and Wimbledon is being taken out of context. If he had wanted to buy a ticket and sit with the masses, then he would have been quite at liberty to wear what he came in to the tournament. However, he was invited by the All England Club to take a complimentary seat in the Royal Enclosure, and as such, there are a few niceties that have to be observed because of others who may also be sitting there.

He decided to not observe convention, and although he was offered suitable attire, he took the decision to not avail himself of it. That, to my mind, is being discourteous to his hosts; they didn't need to invite him (and provide a chauffeur driven car to get him there and back), and most people would think that it was a pretty good offer. I think he showed bad form, and it reflected badly on F1; the news items in the media weren't exactly complimentary!

I would add that I am sure that if the No. 1 ranking tennis player was invited to join the Royal Enclosure at Monaco that he or she would also have to follow certain conventions; from memory, all the men wear ties and jackets, whilst the ladies wear day dresses. No jeans, etc. in sight!

[alan1302]

Originally Posted by Casper

I certainly do comment on him negatively just as he comments on others with the same, very widely in fact on just about every other F1 media source. His "I am best" attitude and refusal to debate any one else's view does not make him my favorite person. I notice in other places on the net that there are huge blocks of F1 fans who feel the same way. He is entitled to an opinion to comment as everyone else is but his refusal to discuss his opinion is arrogant to others who want to engage him in discussion. Read his blog once and you get the drift, agree with him or be treated like a child in his responses. I feel better now I have got that off my chest and I really do hope he reads this but even if he did it won't achieve anything. Our views might coincide on this matter but I don't have to be a member of his fan club.

Or maybe he just can't be bothered replying to a loads of people all the time? I know I would get fed up with it.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

for me it always has been an odd concept to me that people dress in their Sunday best to attend a sporting event. jeans and a tshirt and if you are really into it a piece of team kit is how regular people dress for sporting events.

to have people dress up always came across as pretentious to me.

if there was as point to any of this i guess its that for me i think that if a main stream sport wants to be popular it has to be inclusive and i dont think you get that with shirts and ties or dresses.

American businessmen count tickets and money. The more they get, the better. That's why they have tried to make people cheer in tennis matches.

Several forms of European sport were for high classes, where class is more important than fashion or business. Yes there are popular grandstands in horse tracks, but the royal box has restricted access and tickets can't be simply bought.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

He decided to not observe convention, and although he was offered suitable attire, he took the decision to not avail himself of it.

That, to my mind, is being discourteous to his hosts; they didn't need to invite him (and provide a chauffeur driven car to get him there and back), and most people would think that it was a pretty good offer.

Of course he could have accepted to wear the required clothes, like any tennis or golf player would. But he's Lewis Hamilton.

Now, if someone like the Pope or the Dalai Lama were invited, they wouldn't have demanded them to wear English clothes.

If I were a promoter of a sports event, I'd demand sportspeople like Hamilton and Usain Bolt to wear colorful clothes, Hollywood actresses to wear their best dresses, etc.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Now, if someone like the Pope or the Dalai Lama were invited, they wouldn't have demanded them to wear English clothes.

Those are not good examples, as they would arrive in their formal clothes that we always see them wearing in public; they are not casually dressed as was Hamilton.

After they had gone to the trouble of inviting him, and the invitation clearly sets out how they expect their guests to dress (so it shouldn't have come as a surprise to him), it was the height of bad manners to turn down their offer of a change of clothes and just expect to be driven back in his hosts car. Just not good form.

[Oldtony]

The dress sense of the Hamster isn't really moot to the point.
As to my original point about ensuring the continuation of grass roots motor sport it is that this is all aimed at. F1 becomes a dinosaur without it.
I was trying to suggest the potential for motorsport to use the sort of structure that horse racing has developed to secure a future for the sport in a changing world.
Australian horse racing is possibly less elitist in Europe and elsewhere and doesn't suffer from the rather puritanical hostility to having a wager that I have seen in parts of the US. Perhaps that's why I see it differently.
The TAB (Totes were invented in Oz) and bookies are part of the scene and provide taxes and fees to support race clubs. But the industry that creates is much bigger than that.
Today races vary from the "Halls Creek Bakery Maiden" "($4000) at Kembla Grange to the "Magic millions 2yo Classic at the Gold Coast"($2.5 million). And that's the real story. There is a race level for everyone who wants to get involved by way of a small bet or by owning and entering a horse. And there are race meeting right across the country at bush picnic, local, regional and capital city level.
Now certainly if betting is involved there has to be rules and tight control. There is room for race classification (weight for age = engine capacity or Handicap = BOP etc.) and licensing for persons (Fabio would get warned off). Banning of artificial breeding and administering dope is equivalent to specification regulations, fuel testing etc. Compulsory vet checks are similar to scrutineering.
With the money going through organisations like the Hong Kong Jockey Club or the Macao Race club who both bought $1million plus colts at yesterdays sale it might also start to improve the spectator attendance in Asia.
By the way I think Bernie's idea of who constitutes a "to be seen Celebrity" is much more about his access to power and money than to promoting motor sport on general

[Oldtony]

Just an aside. Todays GC Magic Millions was sponsored by Jeep.
That's Fiat Chrysler's biggest selling brand in Australia. Sergio Marchione wasn't there to present the prize but it is probably as good as a Ferrari GP win for the corporate bottom line.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Hamilton and Wimbledon is being taken out of context. If he had wanted to buy a ticket and sit with the masses, then he would have been quite at liberty to wear what he came in to the tournament. However, he was invited by the All England Club to take a complimentary seat in the Royal Enclosure, and as such, there are a few niceties that have to be observed because of others who may also be sitting there.

He decided to not observe convention, and although he was offered suitable attire, he took the decision to not avail himself of it. That, to my mind, is being discourteous to his hosts; they didn't need to invite him (and provide a chauffeur driven car to get him there and back), and most people would think that it was a pretty good offer. I think he showed bad form, and it reflected badly on F1; the news items in the media weren't exactly complimentary!

I would add that I am sure that if the No. 1 ranking tennis player was invited to join the Royal Enclosure at Monaco that he or she would also have to follow certain conventions; from memory, all the men wear ties and jackets, whilst the ladies wear day dresses. No jeans, etc. in sight!

I agree totally with your post, it takes very little effort to show respect to your host.. it's just the correct thing to do ...

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Hamilton and Wimbledon is being taken out of context.

indeed i did take it out of context, although my intention was just to use it as a spring board to talk about about how fans dress and how that relates to the theme of inclusion/exclusion that Oldtony had touched on.

but as we are on about the importance to adhere to tradition...while i agree that it is just good manners to dress according to the dress code of the event you are invited too that is a far cry tot say something needs to be respected because it is tradition.

anyways its not like the All England Club hasnt changed its 'traditions' over time. while i am not familiar with their history per say i would suspect they have changed much over the years to allow for inclusion of working class/non nobility, women, minorities etc.

its important to remember things change over time and adherence to tradition should always be taken with a grain salt.

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

American businessmen count tickets and money. The more they get, the better. That's why they have tried to make people cheer in tennis matches.

well i think most business people place a priority on money not just Americans but i take you point...in American bigger is often seen as better.

but is that a function of desire for money or a function of choice and the need to compete against so much choice?

the American sports landscape is perhaps the most diverse on any nation with several sports all vying for and holding a legitimate claim to being 'America's Sport' (in terms of money generated, attendance, mecghandise sales). and not only do these sports have to compete with each other they also feed off off and have developed an amazing grass roots to minor league system that all serves to feed a seemingly unlimited pool of talent into these sports.

last week, Ryan Hunter-Reay made a comment suggesting that Indy once again looked at as a viable feeder series for F1. i dont watch a lot of Indy these days so that may be a true comment as to the talent level available (although i feel like the drivers who do the winning are all 30-40 year olds so).

but growing up with names like Andretti and Mansell (and even JV and JPM) i always assumed Indy was (at that time) on par with F1.

anyways, long story short, does the lack of competition for F1, or at least F1's belief that it has no competitors, negatively affect F1's ability to grow and evolve? it certainly insulates it and allows to it ignore ideas and concepts that work for other sports.

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

anyways, long story short, does the lack of competition for F1, or at least F1's belief that it has no competitors, negatively affect F1's ability to grow and evolve? it certainly insulates it and allows to it ignore ideas and concepts that work for other sports.

Brilliant! I think you have summed it up in a nutshell.
That is exactly the problem F1 has at present. It is quite convinced that it is the "Pinnacle of Motorsport" but owes no allegiance to the grass roots.
The hierarchy is insular and is bleeding the rest of the sport dry.

[Mike Harte]

Well, F1 doesn't deserve to have any future if FOM continue their attacks on today's digital media. According to this report ( http://www.pitpass.com/55548/Grosjean-falls-foul-of-FOM ) Romain Grosjean posted some videos, on his Facebook page, taken during their filming sessions and also him working alongside the team's engineers. Apparently, this is forbidden, and FOM's lawyers instructed him to take down the videos.

I must admit that if I had been in the Haas team I would have challenged this request, and even allowed FOM to take the team to court over the matter. Posting videos of events that take place outside of the control of FOM should be allowed to be made public unless, of course, they brought the sport in to disrepute. I don't believe that that was the case with Grosjean, and yet BCE is yet again trying to force F1 out of the digital age. The man really needs to retire, and straight away before he does any more damage.

[Casper]

I was under the impression that HAAS do not have a commercial agreement with the FOM up to now. I am not a lawyer but would think that no agreement means HAAS are not subject to their control. Grosjean on the other hand is???

Of course the FOM have yet to work out that once it has been put out there on the internet it is too late and they may as well pull their finger out of the dyke so to speak.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Just an aside. Todays GC Magic Millions was sponsored by Jeep.
That's Fiat Chrysler's biggest selling brand in Australia. Sergio Marchione wasn't there to present the prize but it is probably as good as a Ferrari GP win for the corporate bottom line.

I think that you will find that Alfa Romeo is

http://www.caradvice.com.au/393761/n...-october-2015/

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Casper

I was under the impression that HAAS do not have a commercial agreement with the FOM up to now. I am not a lawyer but would think that no agreement means HAAS are not subject to their control. Grosjean on the other hand is???

Of course the FOM have yet to work out that once it has been put out there on the internet it is too late and they may as well pull their finger out of the dyke so to speak.

Thats a good point. I didn't know that they didn't have an agreement until I had read that somewhere last week. My best guess is that maybe technically they/Grosjean didn't have to pull it down, but that Haas is likely in negotiations with FOM on a deal and a refusal to pull down would be a bit of a "finger in the eye" move while in the middle of negotiations?

Overall however, I think it's a bad move on the part of FOM. Lets kill any enthusiasm or modern marketing as we try to squeeze out a few more dollars from broadcast rights.

Richard

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Overall however, I think it's a bad move on the part of FOM. Lets kill any enthusiasm or modern marketing as we try to squeeze out a few more dollars from broadcast rights.

Richard

This is the stupidity of their whole attitude, though. These were private, i.e. not held in the public's view, happenings where the FOM cameras would not have been present. I cannot, for one moment, believe that FOM could convince a court that the images taken by the Haas, or Grosjean, filming crew were their property, so therefore it is impossible that FOM could monetise them. It was either has/Grosjean shared them via whatever distribution method they chose, or they never see the light of day until these "arrangements" have been quashed.

And Ecclestone wonders why F1 is losing numbers amongst it's old core supporters, and is unable to bring in new viewers amongst the younger generations. And he blames the drivers because they are not public enough. He has totally lost the plot.

[chillibowl]

FOM has a very strange attitude towards social media. i've tried before to understand it but it makes no sense. its as if they are actively engaged in a policy that requires as few people as possible talk about and watch F1 or anything F1 related.

there was a theory floating around that BE is deliberately trying to devalue F1 as much as possible in order to buy it back from CVC for less than he originally sold it to them for....as crazy as that sounds it actually forms a fairly solid basis of explaining all the bat turd crazy things he (FOM) says and does!

[Mike Harte]

Todt tells BCE to stop criticising F1: http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns33210.html

[chillibowl]

not sure if it was in response to Todt's comments there about attracting manus like Audi to the sport but yet another voice from Audi ruling out F1. this time because they can do more with this type of technology in other categories.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123076

http://www.racer.com/f1/item/126684-...ly-not-a-topic

im not sure Todt has any better grasp on what F1 needs then BE does.

[Adam43]

Company not in F1 continues to not be in F1.

It's a little different because I haven't been asked, but I'm not entering F1 soon either. I find messing around in club racing and track days much more cost effective with more exposure than I need.

And I can post on Facebook.

Oh sorry, you didn't ask

[Mike Harte]

chillibowl, I think that the underlying problem for VW/Audi is that there is a lack of stability in F1, both in the rules/regulations and also with the potential new ownership of FOM.

They don't want to invest huge sums of Euros on a PU for F1 whilst the promotor and at least one team are desperate to change the specifications, and they don't want to commit to F1 whilst CVC decides whether it's going to sell it's stake in FOM in 2016, 2017 or at the latest 2018 by which time it has to divest itself of it's holding. And are the other shareholders going to stay around?

In the meantime, it appears that they would like to see the same type of hybrid technology being introduced into the DTM. That could have good long term benefits for F1 as that would provide a good platform for Audi, Mercedes and BMW; it may help bring the other two manufacturers into F1 at a later date.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Company not in F1 continues to not be in F1.

It's a little different because I haven't been asked, but I'm not entering F1 soon either. I find messing around in club racing and track days much more cost effective with more exposure than I need.

And I can post on Facebook.

Oh sorry, you didn't ask