TilkeWannabe's Tracks

[Purist]

I don't think you're latest track is bad, but it just doesn't have that "je ne sais pas", so I can't say that I especially like it either.

FYI, the back straight at Shanghai is under 1.2km (the start/finish straight at Mugello is 1.2 km). Fuji's straight is 1475m; Conrad is ~1600m (~2.2km without the Chase), and the Mistral itself is 1600+m while with the extra flat-out stuff added to it it comes out to ~2.5km. So, not to rain on your parade, but the straight at Shanghai isn't anything extraordinary in the grand scheme of current motor racing.

[Yannick]

Hello TW,

having just seen your Track#3 for the 1st time, I've decided to edit it on the spot, since I think it really has potential, because this circuit has a little bit of everything. I have to admit that I've kind of hijacked it for cars, though ;-)



The 1st thing that came to my attention was the Turn1/2 combination. I changed it to a 180 degree banked corner, the kind that can be seen in ovals, but the real role model here is the final turn of Riverside, California. This is meant to add something to a circuit that already has had a little bit of everything.
In the same vein is the 4th change that I made, which is adding an (optional) chicane before the long corner at the top of the design. A circuit that has a bit of everything of course needs to have a chicane somewhere.
The 2nd change I made is shifting the final corner to the other side, because the way it is in your original, there is a massive danger in the runoff, of cars, and especially bike riders, sliding back onto the track. I've made that kind of error before myself. Thanks to LuiggiSpeed for teaching me.
And the most prominent edit I made, came chronologically in 3rd spot, when I thought that this track severely lacks paddock space. I have therefore enlarged it by bowing the last long straight of the track twice. I've decided to include another chicane at the end of the bottom straight, not to waste an overtaking opportunity, but I'm not too convinced in the look of that corner myself.

I hope you like the edit.

[TilkeWannabe]

Thx for the edits, but once again, my ****** computer can't even stay logged in long enough to send one message, which is really trying my patience. Sorry bout that, Yannick.

BTW, do you know what "je ne sais pas" is? I'm sure u noticed that Purist of Wichita, Kansas said my last track lacked it. All I know is that the term is obviously French.

TilkeWannabe

[Purist]

It means "I don't know" in French. And honestly, a number of the corners look a bit angular, which probably just doesn't give the place a particularly attractive look/feel in my eyes. Then again, I don't know what I'd change to improve it. I hope that explanation helps.

[TilkeWannabe]

It does. Thx Purist.

[Yannick]

TW, your technical problem, is that down to your internet connection being interrupted or down to the ten-tenths board logging you out automatically?
If it's the latter, copy your message before pushing the Send button, and then if you're not being recognized as logged in, login again and tick the box "always keep me logged in". Next, paste the message to the reply box and click Send again. I've gotten used to copying my message to have it at least temporarily saved, because this problem has occured to me before.
If even this does not work, there is something wrong with your browser's cookie settings.
Good luck.
I surely would like to know what you think about my edit. Your 4th track needs some interesting elevation changes to make it exciting. But since Wunstorf used to be an airfield track, which are normally very flat, I have to agree with Purist in saying "I don't know" on what I'd change to make it a better track.

[TilkeWannabe]

Better put another track on right about.........now. Enjoy.

[TilkeWannabe]

It doesn't necessarily have to be over the top of the old site. It could be somewhere that has elevation changes?

[Yannick]

Your Track #5 looks like it's based on an old oval, which had one of its bankings demolished in the place where it now opens up to a road course.

[TilkeWannabe]

I'll take that as a compliment, Yannick. Thx.

[TilkeWannabe]

Now, to make up for not putting a track on yesterday, Im gonna put 2 new ones on today. Here comes track 1 of 2. If it were to be put into construction, it'd become Tasmania's major race facility, ahead of the small and ageing Symmons Plains. It's fast and rather flowing with 3 layouts for the track, the shorter North circuit, the longer South, or National circuit and finally the Grand Prix circuit. Oooooh, I've just noticed that the pit area would have to be small,or large and crammed into a small space., or the Pit Lane is much too long. Either way, Enjoy.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

If the pitlanes was say 450m of a 1km straight (not stretching quite as far towards T1 as drawn) then the South circuit would be over 4.5km long.

It's the perfect place for it, just needs a little tinkering, to adjust the scale.

[bio]

Plus I would definitely make some of the turns faster. This way much of the track is of that stop-n-go kind that racers are said to dislike. Especially the bottom and left sections.

The whole thing looks awesome though.

bio

[TilkeWannabe]

Thx!

It has been one of fav creations for some time now because it was one of the first I ever came up with, it has a good shape and has some very quick areas. It is indeed awesome, huh. I also believe that Tasmania is the only place in Australia for it, as SBF mentioned.

To start with, that knobby-looking corner on the right, I could make longer and not so tight. Roughly the 1st third of the track can be changed drastically. Other changes can be made, I just have to think of them.

Sorry I wasn't on Tuesday, I was kept home by a chest infection and didn't want to use the computer, but it's all good now.

TilkeWannabe

[TilkeWannabe]

Time for track 1 of 2 this weekend. Will elaborate further tomorrow. Enjoy.

[Yannick]

Hello TW,

your 2nd of June 2008 track clearly shows some Tilke influence: it's got the long straights ending at sharp corners and it's got the section of medium speed corners in quick succession that ends at a kink. And just like, say, the new Hockenheim and the Sakhir Desert track, it just doesn't flow well. That is especially evident in what would be the 1st time sector. I'd recommend re-thinking the whole section from Turn 1 to the beginning of the backstraight. The rest is fine if you like Sepang.

Now on to the 7th of June 2008 track. LOL. This is a joke, right? ;-)
Major changes need to be made to infuse some practicability into this sketch.
The way it is now, the large amount of 1st gear hairpins makes it just dull for the drivers. The chicane opposed to the start-finish line makes it appear as though the track was clockwise. With your decision of going anticlockwise, you run into lots of runoff problems with the overpass/underpass section, which in following, I will just call the bridge. The bridge looks far out, just like the whole track itself. So it's kind of fitting. I'm not against these things, since I draw my own weird conceptual tracks from time to time, but here, all I can say is: get rid of the bridge.
I won't edit this track because that would mean creating a whole new track, since I've clearly not understood your concept for it.

[bio]

Well, some hairpins, for sure, but i remember someone designing a track with about 10 180-degree hairpins in immediate succession

What you're saying about the bridge is what i thought of it, too.

Plus, before SBF arrives, let me add the problem of the pitlane: it seems to go on the wrong side and spit out the cars on the racing line just before T1. But there is no space to put it on the other side. Solution? what Yannick hinted and what SBF surely would: changing the race direction would solve the problem.

And, just to include some positive remarks: this layout makes it very easy to place the stands so the spectators catch a lot of action.

bio

[TilkeWannabe]

How dare you say what you did about my new track!!! That's one of my fav designs and I was especially surprised about the amount of criticism it got.

If you hadn't noticed, the is little-to-no space for a pitlane on the opposite side of the track, so I put it on the complete opposite side of the first corner.

The bridge is one of my favoruite parts of the whole design. It's something completely left field so to speak and it is alright to me. If the bridge is SOOO bad, edit it, I gave you free reign to do so. It was a normal track to start with, then I decided to change it to a figure-of-eight because it was a change, but as long as it's MY track, the bridge STAYS. As you can probabl already tell, I feel VERY strongly about my precious track.

[TilkeWannabe]

BTW

When I mentioned how dare you yadda yadda, I was kinda annoyed about you guys not liking it because I DO.

How 'bout I just leave this at the fact that I like it and we won't mention it again.

BTW again

Thx Bio for the ONE good thing that came out of this. Sorry I didn't read what you said about the lack of space for a pitlane on the other side, I was a bit busy being annoyed about what Yannick said about my "joke" of a track.

[Alwaysfirst]

Well I have to admit that this is by no means my favourite track of all time. As a fantasy track it works fine but as a realistic design it needs some work. As you suggested I have done an edit rather than just criticize.



Firstly, as seems quite popular, I have reversed the direction of the track as I feel it just flows better that way. I've kept the tight T1 hairpin which now runs into a new section without the bridge. The bridge was just too long & too much run-off would have been needed on it. Nearly the whole of the T1 section would have had to have been under the bridge which isn't exactly great for spectators. I've added a tightening radius corner that is still quite open to keep some flow after the 1st hairpin. Then there is a kink into an open 90 degree corner which leads to a fast flowing series of bends, similar to the esses you had on your bridge. A straight leads to the hairpin, slightly reconfigured from your original. I'm still not keen on this though. I think I'd rather just have the run to the next hairpin & extend the run-off there. Following this hairpin there is now a right handed kink into a sweeping bend, though a left handed kink & onto a short straight leading to the last corner where the new pitlane leaves the track. I feel that this new section keeps a better flow that your original section made up of hairpins. I find that 2 hairpins following each other a bit dull generally & due to the tightness of your first turn it would be more like 3 hairpins followed by a chicane-just too slow & without much flow. The change in direction has also solved the problem of the pitlane exiting onto the racing line.

I hope you can see this as constructive criticism rather than just slagging off your track, although all of us on here have had to take criticism of tracks that we have designed that we have thought to be great. You just have to take it on the chin & move on...

[TilkeWannabe]

I guess I'll have to expect that every now and then, I was probably kidding myself that every track was going to get praise of some sort.

[bio]

Well, it happens every now and then.

[werner]

It would be boring, wouldn't it?

[ScotsBrutesFan]

The Double cross over track...

Yes as has been suggested the direction change would be the first step in order to have the pitlane exit off the racing line.

Having said that the section South of the S/F I'd say would actually run in your direction ok assuming the correct scale and separation (hairpin diameters).

The double cross over itself...well I have to say that I've attempted a few circuits with a double crossover, and the majority of these didn't go down too well on here either. Though I have to say that Yannick was a bit harsh in calling it a joke.
From taking on board what has been said in the past, there is all sorts of additional considerations.
The Span of the bridge(s)...single huge span, two smaller spans
The footings...a straight approach up onto the bridge and off it again, unless you specify elevation. If 2 smaller spans, is there space between the two sections of track to have an additional footing.
Run-offs...while there are a few tracks where a bridge spans the run off from a corner they are a rare. Also any run-off that may but-up against the footing of the bridges.

Getting back specifically to your design, the entire crossover section is too compressed, also it isn't clear which section of track crosses over which. takin g the crossover over a larger area could make a difference.

Actually if you expanded the whole thing a bit North South, then you could very well have a design that would work a whole lot better, and in the direction that you initially suggest, though with the pitlane now on the inside accessable by a "circuit road" passing under a bridge along with a section of track.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Excuse the double posting, as I ran out of edit time

Here I've added a very quick and hasty edit to show some of what I meant.

To use elevation, I'll say that the area immediately North of the Bridge is higher than either the South or the Pit straight. It returns back to the S/F level sharply down hill on the North to South short straight. This same slope would also provide the basis for the S/F spectator banking.

Apart from the one line of the bridge and stretching a couple of others, the rest is TW's own, so looks pretty rough after editing (I don't have time to tidy it up) and is intended purely to show how spacing things out a little could help. With that additional space, the corners need reprofiling.

Comments from others are of course welcome, but this is aimed more at TW, as constructive criticism