MSNZ & TMC - 'Wheels start to come off'

[Racer Mike]

Originally Posted by BackSeat Driver

Firstly Racer Mike, welcome and thanks for making your first post a really decent one

Secondly can you elaborate what needed rectification on the Emery car? I have a bit to do with this team and it is news to me!

Originally Posted by RogerH

We have a split in the two V8 rank, a now a split in Rallying and major goings on between the sport and another motorsport discipline right now.

Well that was a fair bit of typing. Can you clarify this for me please?

I think the reference to the major goings on between the sport (MSNZ) and another motorsport discipline could be a reference to the split going on in drag racing which has MSNZ's hand in the middle of it - who is right or wrong I don't know but it appears another part of the sport in some sort of turmoil.

I like your style Roger. I wouldnt call it turmoil, I would call it a nuclear disaster. I just cant get my head around all of this, has the competitor done something wrong here or has MSNZ just decided that their decisions are the best for the sport and gone into lockdown.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Racer Mike

I like your style Roger. I wouldnt call it turmoil, I would call it a nuclear disaster. I just cant get my head around all of this, has the competitor done something wrong here or has MSNZ just decided that their decisions are the best for the sport and gone into lockdown.

I think they've done a Robert Mugabe on the sport - they started out with the best of intentions but now have been crazed by the power and are obsessed with keeping control above all other matters, while the sport slowly (or quickly) goes to rack and ruin.

Talk about fiddling while Rome burns...

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Racer Mike

I like your style Roger. I wouldnt call it turmoil, I would call it a nuclear disaster. I just cant get my head around all of this, has the competitor done something wrong here or has MSNZ just decided that their decisions are the best for the sport and gone into lockdown.

What they are doing is about what I predicted earlier on when Supertourers came on the scene and that is a circling of the wagons.

However instead of targeted fire outwards and making changes in their posture, they have opened fire indiscriminately on everyone on a rampage and I think the attitude might be, if they are going down, they are going to take everyone with them too, friend or foe. The whole thing smacks of desperation rather than having any clarity.

Sad. I was hoping they would take the high road, but they are not going to and it's going to get worse.

Going against the grain of those in power is not always an easy thing to do. Many times in my life I have been an unpopular person because I decided not to be a follower and a lemming and instead chose to challenge the status quo. And what is going to have to happen is it's going to take a number of people and/or car clubs like that willing to stand up, have a backbone and be counted and they are going to have to speak out and put their viewpoint across. It's not necessary to be personal about it or nasty and vindictive, even if that is what you get in return.

This isn't an odd case of a few dissidents, everyone from teams, competitors, fans, clubs, etc. seems to be unhappy about how MSNZ is organized and run and it's time for a change.

But I would not fear the unknown or think it's the end of motorsport. Far from it. It's not a disaster, it's what had to happen.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

I think they've done a Robert Mugabe on the sport - they started out with the best of intentions but now have been crazed by the power and are obsessed with keeping control above all other matters, while the sport slowly (or quickly) goes to rack and ruin.

Talk about fiddling while Rome burns...

I remember pointing out sometime ago when MSNZ got involved in TMC and all that, it was probably with the best intentions. And once with that power and financial interest, I do not blame them for not wanting to give it up.

However the problem is that they are not a for-profit entity and they have gotten themselves mixed up in that, which as a result is a conflict of interest as they are now picking sides in the marketplace. As a hypothetical example, this would be like government buying up one of the big timber companies and then using regulation and bureaucracy to undermine all of the private sector timber companies out there and put them out of business. Is that either fair or what government is for? Hell no and that is when it is time to take up arms and revolt.

And as with absolute power that corrupts absolutely, like many totalitarians they have skillfully crafted some semblance of a democratic republic and then made it toothless and chaotic and confusing, so they can continue as they please.

Mostly, all this is easily solved. Get out of TMC or whatever the new name is today, let that float on the open market, go back to your non profit status overseeing the sport and change some of the organization to make it run smoother for the benefit of those that have to financially support said organization.

It's not really that hard to do.

[speedreader]

We need a 21st Century Global Sports & Promotions company to step up to the plate to help start steering the sport back in the right direction.

Maybe TMC (or whatever it is now) know this too seeing they have just employed one of the old Global Sports staff as well as representatives from some of the other classes ???

[RogerH]

One thing I can't understand is the apparent conflict between MSNZ's constitutional obligation to "... encourage participation ... [in] sports involving automobiles with four or more wheels ..." and their actions which seem to be more consistent with trying to curtail the activities of a new group of motorsport participants.
Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the NZV8 / ST issues, the governing body (MSNZ) should rise above such commercial disputes and not let their own commercial relationships take precedence over one of their fundamental constitutional obligations.
MSNZ should welcome and encourage any new group that wants to invest time, effort and money in order to grow motorsport participation - they should not go out of their way to try and bury it and act in a manner that seems to be motivated by wanting it to fail. How can actions like this be consistent with the obligation to "... encourage participation ... [in] sports involving automobiles with four or more wheels ..."???

[on_to_it]

It's hardly constitutional behaviour is it.

When/where is the AGM this year?

[Speedwayracer44]

Originally Posted by Racer Mike

I have been in this sport for over 30 years, Raced, Rallied and have never seen anything like the goings on until now. I know a lot of people and we have had enough of these people that are wrecking something that I enjoy doing. I just want to race and have a good time, a simple business transaction. What I am about to say is 90% true because in this sport there is always an element of bull**** added to everything said or done.

We as a sport are in the crap right now thanks to incompetent people who have no idea of a modern day business model.

We have a split in the two V8 rank, a now a split in Rallying and major goings on between the sport and another motorsport discipline right now.

Our president addressed the Taupo CC in the last week or so and told them that if they associated themselves with V8ST they wouldn’t be around and stated that V8ST would be gone by the end of the year? Funny how a number of circuts don’t have business deals with MSC but are dealing with V8ST.
He made further statements at a V8 Supercar meeting late last year to V8 Supercar officials claiming it wouldn’t happen and suppliers hadn’t been paid. Who bring the sport into disrepute here?

Its great to see the new Rally Xtreme class competing for the first time in a number of years. These guys couldn’t get what they wanted from the sport so they did it themselves, they wanted simple one day events that cut costs, simple rules that saved money, less time away and to have FUN. The only downfall here is that in the coming weeks when the NZRC shows on TV one, the extreme coverage will be on TV3 at almost the same time. How clever is that for our competitors and the sport.
The sports GM was overheard at Rally Wairarapa making very silly and incorrect statements about V8ST. Other MSNZ high powered officials are making new rules to the detriment of V8ST. This 2 lap warmup rule is rubbish and maybe the sport should inform spectators vs spectaors blaming V8ST. Let them race cause at the moment MSNZ V8's have nothing to offer.
Our VP decided to have a squirt on the side of the road at Rally Wairarapa in everyones view, then walked around Rally HQ with bare feet and his guts hanging out. A great look.
We have people charged with running our sport sending inappropriate emails to clubs and individuals, making ridiculous executive decisions by people who have no experience in the areas concerned and who have no experience in running a business and retaining customers.
We have people charged with promoting the so called championship series owning coffee carts, pace cars and manipultaing sponsorship deals. Furthermore why should I have to pay for a series that has 50-60 cars and looks like a cup of cold sick on TV when we are competing with 250 cars.
This Hamilton saga of Geoff Short and someone else close to the new NZV8 being caught taking photos and measurements of the Supercheap cars could be the lowest so far, who told him to do this? MSC or MSNZ or are they the same?
Somehow the photos got to MSNZ and the Emery car was ordered not to run until rectified, fair enough. Can u imagine MSNZ doing this to the BNT V8’s. Almost like not meeting the championship criteria for minimum amount of cars to be eldigeable for a NZ championship or like doing a U turn on a super license to let anyone race in the class to save their butt.
I understand MSNZ the company who majority owns MSC didn’t know about the fresh new look of changing the motorsport company to motorsport promotions. Who is running who here?
Does the Toyota NZ boss know what his employee John Foulke has got himself into by joing MPL? Hells bells, MSNZ have made it clear there is no room for Toyota, Suzuki, Utes, Productions cars or anything unless you have a NZV8. Purchasing the IP for this car and class is the last straw, the people charged with running our sport have spoken. We don’t give a crap about you but please keep paying your license fee and clubs please keep paying your associated fees and permits.
These fees this year will be used to pay legal costs to fight V8ST and perhaps we may be in for an extra levy.

All of this is unavoidable and unnecessary and in the coming weeks our clubs need to vote accordingly on remits sent by their members or we will not have a sport soon.

God help us.

Maybe there is a god after all, well said racer Mike

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

It's hardly constitutional behaviour is it.

When/where is the AGM this year?

18 - 19 May at Sky City Auckland.

[on_to_it]

Excellent, thanks. That's a 10 minute drive for me, I'll go this year.

[promax]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Excellent, thanks. That's a 10 minute drive for me, I'll go this year.

we'll expect a full report from you on the 20th

[on_to_it]

Of course you do PM!

I have to find a schedule first and pick the interesting bits. I haven't got two days to blow on that.

[Shane Drake]

Good post Roger, in fact some very good and valid points and some interesting extracts from the constitution.

As a few of you may know, my business Chicane Racewear is primarily focused around motorsport and thank goodness we decided to restructure and change our direction when the GFC took effect back in 2008-2009 otherwise we wouldn’t be here today but in saying that our sport is doing more today to keep competitors away than ever before so from Chicane's point of view we are no further ahead. The sport and its promotions company have not moved with the times and are light years away from the demands of competitors or customers (which are the same in the modern era)

I offered my services to MSNZ last November to help try and promote the sport or offer my business background to help in any way. I was asked by Shayne Harris a few days later if I would like to become the face of the new NZV8 and help promote that class. It hit me about 1 second later that this was business suicide from a person in my position and little did Shayne know that I was blacklisted from TV duties by the commercial manager of their promotions company so that was never going to get sign off anyway. I was disappointed they felt the only thing that needed help was the new car. I would be interested to hear if anyone else has offered assistance and what response they got.

What do we do? The sport needs to follow Hockey, basketball, soccer etc and have it run by a company that has directors that are accountable and adhere to the companies act and its company constitution. Let’s get some depth into the sport, expertise from individuals that ooze success that don’t have a personal agenda, expert people that know there domain and have respect and support in their specialist area. We need a CEO that when problems arise he can make instant decisions that reflect the path and requirements of its directors and customers. We need a CEO that has respect yet can still fire his boot into a few backsides and speed up all aspects of the business and encourage new competitors, new cars, new initiatives, works with our clubs and circuits and bring the sport into the 21st century for all the right reasons. Speedreader pointed out that we need a 21st century promotional company, yes we do and it shouldn’t have any financial involvement in the sports. Lets charge a company who makes a living from this sort of thing that can look outside the square for sponsorship and marketing opportunities and bring fresh modern day ideas to the table and follow some of the success other sports have received due to using these professionals.

[harcey]

Originally Posted by Shane Drake

Good post Roger, in fact some very good and valid points and some interesting extracts from the constitution.

As a few of you may know, my business Chicane Racewear is primarily focused around motorsport and thank goodness we decided to restructure and change our direction when the GFC took effect back in 2008-2009 otherwise we wouldn’t be here today but in saying that our sport is doing more today to keep competitors away than ever before so from Chicane's point of view we are no further ahead. The sport and its promotions company have not moved with the times and are light years away from the demands of competitors or customers (which are the same in the modern era)

I offered my services to MSNZ last November to help try and promote the sport or offer my business background to help in any way. I was asked by Shayne Harris a few days later if I would like to become the face of the new NZV8 and help promote that class. It hit me about 1 second later that this was business suicide from a person in my position and little did Shayne know that I was blacklisted from TV duties by the commercial manager of their promotions company so that was never going to get sign off anyway. I was disappointed they felt the only thing that needed help was the new car. I would be interested to hear if anyone else has offered assistance and what response they got.

What do we do? The sport needs to follow Hockey, basketball, soccer etc and have it run by a company that has directors that are accountable and adhere to the companies act and its company constitution. Let’s get some depth into the sport, expertise from individuals that ooze success that don’t have a personal agenda, expert people that know there domain and have respect and support in their specialist area. We need a CEO that when problems arise he can make instant decisions that reflect the path and requirements of its directors and customers. We need a CEO that has respect yet can still fire his boot into a few backsides and speed up all aspects of the business and encourage new competitors, new cars, new initiatives, works with our clubs and circuits and bring the sport into the 21st century for all the right reasons. Speedreader pointed out that we need a 21st century promotional company, yes we do and it shouldn’t have any financial involvement in the sports. Lets charge a company who makes a living from this sort of thing that can look outside the square for sponsorship and marketing opportunities and bring fresh modern day ideas to the table and follow some of the success other sports have received due to using these professionals.

well said Barney,you are not the only one in that situation and i do fear that the new motorsport promotions will be a smoke and mirrors re hash of same old same old......i know who has been employed to do social network promotion and hope that this is not detrimental to his other strengths but have not heard officially if the worst components of the previous TMC have gone..........BL i understand is tasked with getting cars sold and brokering sales deals which i guess is in his area of knowledge....but still the issue of the deadwood from TMC has not been publicly addressed.......if they are all still there in different clothes then she's game over ace....

[Goat Boy]

What we need is the timely return of Mr Keener!

[Racer Mike]

Just read this decision on MSNZ website and we wonder why we have no confidence in our sport. Simply put...... quite unbelievable. Half a millimetre is the new tollerance accross motorsport.

http://www.motorsport.org.nz/sites/d...20Decision.pdf

Wayne Christie, Paul Te Punga, Loyd Robinson and Graeme Robertson, bow your heads in shame and resign from the sport........please!

Do you think Suzuki will be back next year and or will the rest of the competitors turn up knowing they have faith in our system, I dont think so.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Racer Mike

Just read this decision on MSNZ website and we wonder why we have no confidence in our sport. Simply put...... quite unbelievable. Half a millimetre is the new tollerance accross motorsport.

http://www.motorsport.org.nz/sites/d...20Decision.pdf

Wayne Christie, Paul Te Punga, Loyd Robinson and Graeme Robertson, bow your heads in shame and resign from the sport........please!

Do you think Suzuki will be back next year and or will the rest of the competitors turn up knowing they have faith in our system, I dont think so.

Half a friggen millimetre....are you kidding?

When my son was karting, we won a "big" meeting (this was Cadets though) and the techie measured the restrictor radius in 7 (yes 7) different places and DQ'd us on .001 mm. And this was for a seven year old!!!!!!

We measured a number of restrictors from kart shops around Auckland, and guess what, half where illegal.

How the **** can you race with a head like that, and say with a straight face "we won a Championship cleanly"?

[smokin'joe]

so why is page 1 of the report regarding the Lauder decision, and P2 the Lowrey decision??
or is it just another clerical blunder that could be overturned due to incorect paperwork??

[Southern Man]

[QUOTE
Do you think Suzuki will be back next year and or will the rest of the competitors turn up knowing they have faith in our system, I dont think so.[/QUOTE]

If the rules were not policed accurately then I don't think people would turn up next year.

Accuracy of measurement and compliance with the specifications are like pregnacy tests and remember one can not be slightly pregnant.

Sure I do feel for AJ, he has impressed me and driven well all season, however his car was non-compliant when checked.

I stand to be corrected but my understanding is that he along with a number of others in the field had been running with a sealed engine all season and that the penalty applies to all races competed in during the period that it was sealed.

[Racer Mike]

Got this this morning, priceless.

BREAKING NEWS

MSNZ has announced that next years sponsor will be Tampax.
A spokesman for Tampax said " To sponsor a punch of *¥%#!? going through a bad period is exactly what our company is all about"

[Southern Man]

With all the allegations flying about of the varous threads about motorsport and in particular motor racing in NZ it will be interesting to see how many of the participants take the time to attend the race workshop on Saturday 19th May in the Auckland room 1 at Sky city. The meeting starts at 9.00am.

I am sure that there are going to be some interesting questions asked.

[ilovenzv8s]

Hi all,
Sorry for some basic questions but can anybody shed any light on the following.
How much monies is TV3 owed from the final round from Taupo and what is the actual reason why they are not paying. Some say it is because the TV3 presenters from the ITM 500 made some derogatory comments about the class. Excuse my ignorance but was the last round of the summer series back in March and the ITM 400 in April.
Secondly over the 2010/2011 summer series we had the Mercedes pace/safety car. It has been put to me that this vehicle was actually a crashed vehicle which was personally owned by a private person. It was fully repaired by Mercedes at their own cost in Lou of it being the “Official” vehicle.
If there is any truth to this then someone is driving around in a very expensive road car which (in a very indirect way) we have all paid for.
Finally Toyota has been allowed to enter the NZV8s with their own engine. This has effectively put an end to the likes of Nick Ross, Simon Richards, Dwayne Cater and Andrew Anderson as they simply will not be able to be competitive against the Toyota power plant. Even the likes of Inky will find it hard and will need to invest an awful of money developing their respective chassis/engine combinations to be competitive.
If I have got it wrong can someone please let me know as this weekend is important for all of us and the future of our sport.

[ilovenzv8s]

1

[Racer Mike]

Originally Posted by ilovenzv8s

Hi all,
Sorry for some basic questions but can anybody shed any light on the following.
How much monies is TV3 owed from the final round from Taupo and what is the actual reason why they are not paying. Some say it is because the TV3 presenters from the ITM 500 made some derogatory comments about the class. Excuse my ignorance but was the last round of the summer series back in March and the ITM 400 in April.
Secondly over the 2010/2011 summer series we had the Mercedes pace/safety car. It has been put to me that this vehicle was actually a crashed vehicle which was personally owned by a private person. It was fully repaired by Mercedes at their own cost in Lou of it being the “Official” vehicle.
If there is any truth to this then someone is driving around in a very expensive road car which (in a very indirect way) we have all paid for.
Finally Toyota has been allowed to enter the NZV8s with their own engine. This has effectively put an end to the likes of Nick Ross, Simon Richards, Dwayne Cater and Andrew Anderson as they simply will not be able to be competitive against the Toyota power plant. Even the likes of Inky will find it hard and will need to invest an awful of money developing their respective chassis/engine combinations to be competitive.
If I have got it wrong can someone please let me know as this weekend is important for all of us and the future of our sport.

You are very correct in what you say. Seems that MSC were just waiting for an excuse to not pay, probalbly cause the are so in the red that they cant pay and perhaps they heard something that they thought was the out.

Even more correct on the mercedes pace car, just another case of employees of a company with no control from a company that has no control with their hands in their back pockets.

Toyota in NZV8, hey good luck. I think its great but I hope MSNZ have enough resouces to pay for all the testing when one of these new manufacturers makes their debut and winds off everyone else by half a lap and then creats conjecture amongst the ranks.

[Racer Mike]

You are very correct in what you say. Seems that MSC were just waiting for an excuse to not pay, probalbly cause the are so in the red that they cant pay and perhaps they heard something that they thought was the out.



Even more correct on the mercedes pace car, just another case of employees of a company with no control from a company that has no control with their hands in their back pockets.



Toyota in NZV8, hey good luck. I think its great but I hope MSNZ have enough resouces to pay for all the testing when one of these new manufacturers makes their debut and winds off everyone else by half a lap and then creats conjecture amongst the ranks.