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Old 6 Mar 2011, 02:56 (Ref:2840872)   #1
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V8SA - #3 in the world!

Words of wisdom from Tony Cochrane

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there are only three contenders internationally, with Formula One No. 1, NASCAR No. 2 and then us.
The full interview below

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/spo...-1226016387875
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Old 6 Mar 2011, 03:09 (Ref:2840876)   #2
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And he wonders why people ridicule him.....

#3 worldwide?

But once more he implies of the disregard to the local scene and fanbase in favour of....

He should be working harder to address the increasing weakness of the series in the domestic market, such as the 25% (ish) drop in home TV ratings, the 40% fall in V8 merchandise sales etc etc.
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Old 6 Mar 2011, 03:19 (Ref:2840880)   #3
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Surely a career in politics awaits with his total disregard for the average punter.
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Old 6 Mar 2011, 08:40 (Ref:2840924)   #4
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TSR has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
I think the WRC might have something to say about number 3 then u could add the DTM, WTC & FIA GT before the supertaxis

Just the Black Wiggle way to scam more money for his back pocket before the sale, I noticed in the interveiw he said he was going to buy back into the V8's, so why sell in the first place then.
He has lost the plot big time
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Old 6 Mar 2011, 08:47 (Ref:2840927)   #5
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peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
i think there is much more interesting things in there than No 3 in the world, and unless you guys have some facts he may very well be right.

1. new international sponsor in a couple of months time
2. 5 overseas rounds in 2014
3. 2 new marques in 2012

they are much more bigger items than semantics that no one here can or cant prove

edit, new sponsor in a couple of weeks. anyone got any tips?

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Old 6 Mar 2011, 08:58 (Ref:2840930)   #6
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I dont know how much weight you can assign to Cochranes comments Pecky that follow his statment about being the 3rd biggest motorsport category in the world.

His throw away comments about sponsors, manufacturers and overseas rounds over years gives no reason for anyone apart from the telegraph to buy into the interview.

As a previous post suggested, might be time for him to focus more closely on the declining domestic attendances, tv figures and relevance of the series.
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Old 6 Mar 2011, 09:09 (Ref:2840935)   #7
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peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
well i guess we will know more in a few weeks, if he brings in a new international sponsor we will have to assign him alot of weight

in the mean time if you could prove its not number 3, that would be handy, because cocho has a document that he is flogging around that says just that and people are about to spend big money to buy a share and we should provide future buyers with evidence to the contrary
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Old 6 Mar 2011, 09:58 (Ref:2840945)   #8
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in the mean time if you could prove its not number 3, that would be handy, because cocho has a document that he is flogging around
what document? Cochrane assigned that comment to a faceless 'potential' buyer from some country. Not something I would be putting the house on.

In terms of proving that V8SC isnt the number 3 category, pretty straight forward when you put in names like Moto GP, WRC, World Superbikes, DTM, WTCC, Indycar etc

Alternatively, we could sift through tv, crowd statistics and come to the same conclusion however the easiest and most telling way is to flick through various international motorsport websites such as autosport, speedtv, crash etc and ask yourself what is the 3rd biggest category?
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Old 6 Mar 2011, 10:07 (Ref:2840948)   #9
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peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
that would be the document that they are using to sell the business, some sort of details that would have used, things like crowd numbers sponsorship, tv audiences etc

and really no, you listed a number of sports there but woop di do, proves nothing because at the end of the day, you dont know. You need to trawl through those figures and you dont have the time to do that and neither do i, but i bet the guys selling the v8's have time and i bet the guys buying it have time, becaus ethey are getting paid to do it

how about we go to an international european motorsports forum and see which categories have the biggest postings
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Old 6 Mar 2011, 10:47 (Ref:2840955)   #10
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well i guess we will know more in a few weeks, if he brings in a new international sponsor we will have to assign him alot of weight

in the mean time if you could prove its not number 3, that would be handy, because cocho has a document that he is flogging around that says just that and people are about to spend big money to buy a share and we should provide future buyers with evidence to the contrary
Don't have access to the Black wiggles business proposal, but been around long enough to know whats what. Worked with some big boys, and some Merchant Bankers and are fully verse in procducing some glossy overtures of how everything is, and cash flow, etc.

So, the reality is, we maybe enjoyed by millions, but we are a long way from 3. Still it is an attractive proposition to Merchant bankers.
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Old 6 Mar 2011, 11:42 (Ref:2840971)   #11
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With a 25% drop off in domestic TV ratings that entails potentially any increases in overseas TV filling in that home market deficit. ie not really growing the category total.

Lets not forget TC has been a long time supporter of the Ecclestone F1 model of promoting the business, and as we know Bernies F1 viewership figures are well lets just say optimistic.

Incidentally there was a previous document (March 2008, so a while ago but a leopard never changes his spots) of TV viewers in Aus that TC put his name to, and was subsequently proven to be figures that were potentially picked from a hat. (altered my first source of where he pulled the numbers from )

Multiple counting was of a scale even Bernie would be proud of. By coincidence the increase in ratings back then as pointed out by those from within the TV industry were more to do with the fact that under TEN coverage due to their VFL commitments we got V8SC shown on Sunday with the Saturday race shown prior to the Sunday racing. So a viewer got counted once.

Now with the racing shown on Saturday and Sunday that automatically counts the viewers as 2 if they viewed both days. Rather than highlight that fact Cochrane boasted of 'huge increases in ratings'! Spread that out over say 14 rounds and that is quite a lot of a difference in viewers, all thanks to broadcasting improvements rather than as implied by TC, a "phenomenal growth in popularity of V8SC" (TC's exact words).
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Old 6 Mar 2011, 22:00 (Ref:2841185)   #12
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I think James Phelps misunderstood Tony when he said V8s were no.3. TC was talking in regards to importance to himself with money being no.1 (of course), reading through the article I cannot make out what no.2 would be (possibly more money) and v8s picking up the final spot on the podium.
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Old 6 Mar 2011, 23:14 (Ref:2841203)   #13
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As far as Tony's claims:
1) New international sponsor - Great - at what level? What's definition of international? An overseas owned company? An Australian company that exports? And at what level? Are they going to be a title sponsor pouring in millions? An associate sponsor giving a low five figure amount? Or a product/contra deal. How much more money does this deal generate, and how much effort will the company put into promoting its association with the category? Because to be honest, the failure of V8s has a lot to do with companies involved with it not promoting that involvement. It sells to V8 consumers, but doesn't sell V8s to the wider community.

2) Five races in 2014 - Maybe, maybe not. But again, we've been to three different overseas venues in the past five years - and only one of them is still going? China bailed after one year, Bahrain is no longer interested. While we can get money from going to the Middle East - and I'm not suggesting we shouldn't if they're willing to pay - there needs to be a strategy to help the venues grow the category. If there's nobody turning up year after year - then the V8s is failing in its role. How many of these new venues will still be on the calendar in 2019. And the more times the V8s fail to draw or grow an attendance base (we're up to three now) then the less likely other governments will be to fork out the money, so this revenue stream will dry up.

3) Two new manufacturers - He's been trotting this line out for 3 years. Nobody has shown anything other than polite interest. They can't even get a 3rd manufacturer to provide a Safety Car anymore! It will happen one day I'm sure, and he'll say I told you so - but I'll believe it when I actually see it.

4) V8s #3 in the world - Bull****. Complete and utter ********. Tony is talking out of his arse. Every comment he's making is part of his sales pitch to the potential bidders. Safest thing to do is view everything he says in the prism of a politician during an election campaign - because that's effectively what this is. I have no doubt he's got a document that states that very point. That's what he paid someone to come up with. It's called a prospectus document - which is designed to sell the company. This document is the same sort of one that he uses to sell the category to state governments for street circuits. Simple tricks include - 'stating cumulative attendances as individual attendances (150,000 people to Homebush, anyone); 'the viewership figures - anyone who has ever seen V8s on the news is considered a 'viewer'. It's an old trick, not exclusive to V8s. F1 uses it as well to claim 20 billion watch F1 each year'; using projected revenue forecasts as actuals.

Etc, etc. These are the things that prospectus documents are designed to do. Take existing figures and projections and manipulate them to produce the most flattering result. When comparing figures against competitors, use the same tactics in reverse so you compare favourably to them.

This is not exclusive to V8s, all companies do it, but it's the context that all TC statements should be viewed in.
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Old 6 Mar 2011, 23:22 (Ref:2841206)   #14
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Uh huh... another TC bash. How surprising

A quick question if I may... is there some kind of prize, some kind of income, some kind of profit to be gained.. if a motorsport category is #1, #2, #3 or #4584854?

No...?

I am shocked...

It is clear Mr Cochrane is trying to talk up the category to maximise its value to contending bidders. There is no secret made of that. A MacBanker or equivalent will be able to tell people that V8SA is the #3 category in the world to make their passage of releasing large sums of money more warm and fuzzy

To consider also is that a purchase of this type would be done on the basis of two things, sustainability of incomes (and the contracts in place to keep that happening in the future) and the business model attractiveness.

Whether this discussion is about racing cars or making widgets, the financial evaluation process is largely the same. The difference is that the product here is an entertainment service with varying degrees of welded on customers, casual viewers and a huge teev commitment for the rest...

Does it matter if the category is #3 in the world, if it spits out the required cash as predicted in the modelling? World domination only suits if the bank balances are suitably satiated, I mean you cant bank the #3 but you can bank the profits!

Wonder what the REC holders will do with their $3m each?
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Old 7 Mar 2011, 01:23 (Ref:2841240)   #15
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peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
3 million each GTR, that means the series is valued at about $330 million, probably about right

i assume they will build themselves barnd new COTF's with that money, which is partially why they are selling their share.

I think some of you posters actually dont realsie how big v8's are, they get big crowds have stacks of rounds.

and prove to me they aren't no 3. any sort of fact will do.

I also dont think tony was referring to bikes and WRC when he said this, but who knows maybe he was.

we shall see in two weeks when he delivers a big international sponsor
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Old 7 Mar 2011, 05:25 (Ref:2841279)   #16
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Uh huh... another TC bash. How surprising
Why is it a bash GTR? Do all posters need to agree with TC's opinions?

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Does it matter if the category is #3 in the world
It doesn't matter however if you are going to make the statement (whatever the motivation) you need to expect follow up questions, clarification and in this case laughter.
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Old 7 Mar 2011, 05:35 (Ref:2841281)   #17
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I also dont think tony was referring to bikes and WRC when he said this, but who knows maybe he was.
Sounds like you also feel he was being deliberately vague /elusive/ bull****ting with his 'statement of fact!'

Perhaps he meant #3 in exclusively V8 Tintop series on the planet..... behind NASCAR and DTM. International Superstars Series is not exclusively V8 AFAIK.

If he is so sure of the status of V8SA on a world platform one would imagine he would show the list of audited figures from which he was able to factually base / make said claim.....

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Old 7 Mar 2011, 06:09 (Ref:2841286)   #18
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peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
firstly he was answering a question, thats up to the reporter to get the facts

if he was sure of the number he would show it to people who it meant something to, like people who are going to buy the series for $170 million dollars, which is what he has do

not sure why people think DTM is bigger, it has less rounds, less car and less teams.
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Old 7 Mar 2011, 06:21 (Ref:2841287)   #19
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Well, it has more manufacturers, for starters....


I am beginning to wonder about you (again) peckstar....do you believe everything you read on the internet/are told is true? Because I have a bridge you may be interested in.....
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Old 7 Mar 2011, 06:24 (Ref:2841291)   #20
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peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
no it doesnt , it has two audi and mercedes (well it did in 2010)

just provide me with some facts?

and amount of manufacturers is not one of them. (but it could be)

my friend, dont let your hate get in the way of the truth

the series is worth 100's of millions of dollars, it has the income to back those numbers and if TC is telling the truth it is about to get bigger
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Old 7 Mar 2011, 07:37 (Ref:2841309)   #21
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the series is worth 100's of millions of dollars, it has the income to back those numbers and if TC is telling the truth it is about to get bigger
The series actually got smaller in 2010 but its about to explode in 2011

Keep em coming pecky
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Old 7 Mar 2011, 08:00 (Ref:2841315)   #22
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not sure why people think DTM is bigger, it has less rounds, less car and less teams.
with a population basically 4 times ours in a country the size of an Aussie State, and a culture where there is no cricket, so motorsport is a major factor, soccer being winter time.

A culture so steeped in Motor Racing for a hundred years, and where 250,000+ people would go on raceday to the Nurburgring to watch a GP in the rain. Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW all with a bias towards performance cars, all heavily involved in motor sport programmes on an international scale.....

A quarter of an F1 grid is German. All good indicators of a country that loves it's motorsport.

With 1.33 million Germans watching on TV and 70,000 spectators per race, DTM is by their own calculations the most popular international touring car series. In addition to races in Germany, DTM visits Great Britain, Spain and France where the series also has a huge following, both spectators and on TV..
Source

DTM has much bigger names driving in the championship, and is a direct feeder series to F1, and moreso those on their way out of F1. Not to mention they are actually expanding with new manufacturers joining, not just threatening every year that 'it is in the pipeline'.

There is absolutely no comparison between DTM and V8SC.. It is examples like the bums on seats DTM popularity and documented TV viewers DTM have just in their own country that make TC's claims of V8SC Status so ridiculous they are laughable. His credibility is tarnished by them.

Its fine to bull**** and stretch a few facts, that is part of his job, but just make them believable rather than plucked randomly from his used food outlet.


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Old 7 Mar 2011, 08:07 (Ref:2841318)   #23
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peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
actually EB, all you did then is prove that v8's are bigger than DTM.

V8s get more attendes and more tv audiences and all that with a smaller poulation, they have more races and more drivers and teams.

So we can wipe DTM off the list, and they're in that much trouble they have to re-jig the series for 2011, no way you shell out $180 million for a half share

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Old 7 Mar 2011, 08:28 (Ref:2841330)   #24
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actually EB, all you did then is prove that v8's are bigger than DTM.

V8s get more attendes and more tv audiences and all that with a smaller poulation, they have more races and more drivers and teams.

So we can wipe DTM off the list, and they're in that much trouble they have to re-jig the series for 2011, no way you shell out $180 million for a half share
I would bet that more people outside Europe would watch the DTM than people outside Australia watch V8s.
Simplest way to work out how popular a series is internationally is how many nationalities compete in that series.
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Old 7 Mar 2011, 08:30 (Ref:2841332)   #25
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just provide me with some facts?


my friend, dont let your hate get in the way of the truth

the series is worth 100's of millions of dollars, it has the income to back those numbers and if TC is telling the truth it is about to get bigger
I don't think there are very many series running around the world that are worth money that kinda cash and return these kinda figures.

"V8Supercars claimed a profit of $32 million in 2010 on a turn-over of $135 million."

ACO with Le Mans series stuff, IRL/Indycar,WRC, GT1, VLN, DTM, WTCC/BTCC/ETCC etc all run reasonably large series but do you honestly believe any of these as whole are worth the $300 (even say $200 for argument sake) million be shopped around? Most series are money pits for the owners (A1 GP anyone?) and either propped up by some one with vested interested as a marketing exercise.. This is what I am think TC is talking about with the top 3 bit, not how many spectators or manufactures are involved but value of the series as a whole, which I think he is pretty correct. #1 Nascar (covers Cup, Nationwide, GrandAM etc) #2 f1 and #3 v8s... I also think he is on about 4 wheels as well not 2.. Show me some figures or an article that has any other series valved at more than $200-$300 million..

SEL and Teh Great Chonco run a pretty tight ship and has the runs on the board for return to shareholders... They pay the teams $21 mill a year in return for their 75% ownership from my rough guess based on $750k a car they get paid from the REC so the buyers would be looking at around $14mill for 50% ownership which isn't a bad dividend from a 14 round race series

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