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Old 23 Feb 2013, 17:46 (Ref:3209620)   #31
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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
testing at the end of last year? the young driver tests?

perhaps i am forgetting a end of year test session, but since the teams conduct their young driver tests at different times and different places i would think that in fairness to those who chose to test earlier in the season everyone would have to use the same tires so im guessing that meant they used last years versions.

the timing of when they get the tires should be looked at more closely though. at the point of the first test some teams will have already spent literally tens of millions of dollars. not everyone is in the same boat then because Ferrari surely spent more than Sauber by the time either one of them got to see the 2013 tires.

from a cost point of view its some what ridiculous that you let teams spend this kind of money before you introduce 'a revolutionary variable' into the mix that could easily make all that they spent a complete waste.
At the young drivers test, Pirelli tested this seasons compounds, and if Ferrari want to spend millions on a long shot, then that's their look out. Anyway, most of the teams stayed behind to test the new tyres at Abu Dhabi, and the teams also tested next seasons tyres during practice for the Brazilian GP. Pirelli also tests its rain tyres at Abu Dhabi, and has its own F1 car to do more tyre testing during the season.
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Old 23 Feb 2013, 17:48 (Ref:3209622)   #32
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Didn't the teams run this years rubber prior to the race at Brazil? on the Friday I thought, if I recall...
Yes, but see my previous post.

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This sums up where I am coming from to be honest..
Again, if Ferrari, or whoever, want to risk spending that amount of money, then it's not the tyres that are at fault.
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Old 23 Feb 2013, 18:26 (Ref:3209642)   #33
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Again, if Ferrari, or whoever, want to risk spending that amount of money, then it's not the tyres that are at fault.
fair point i suppose but its sort of besides the point imo. surely they could also all spend less money and not begin developing their next years car until they know for sure what the tires will behave like but where would that leave us? should F1 be about designing cars for the tires supplier or should the supplier be designing tires for the cars...which is of course a whole other cost debate.

and its not just a 'big team' problem because they can afford to fix their problems after the fact. the real problem is for a team with a limited budget because they have less options for changing direction once they get to the first winter test and a chance to put on significant real world miles. if they have to wait for the tires to show up before they can complete their designs you put them even further back in terms of time which is just another penalty like their problem of being out spent.

we have enjoyed relatively stable rules for a number of years so the cost savings should have been higher but from the way the teams talk it hasent been the case so i question the logic of changing the compounds from year to year and the extra cost that entails.

its not Pirelli's fault, i agree, but rather that of a a system that is looking less and less sustainable every year.
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Old 23 Feb 2013, 20:12 (Ref:3209685)   #34
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I think Pirelli should arrive at a place where they have a range of tyres that work well at most if not all of the places they visit and then leave it alone, otherwise the teams are constantly chasing the tyre maker..

Now that I know what was going on with Bridgestone and Ferrari-Michael, I am amazed the FIA just stood by and allowed blatant cheating to happen..

Absurd really..
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Old 23 Feb 2013, 22:40 (Ref:3209733)   #35
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Old 24 Feb 2013, 00:33 (Ref:3209768)   #36
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To what extent did the teams know about this year's tyre characteristics?

I know they tested on the Friday in Brazil. As has been said, it won't be good if some teams have a car totally at odds with the tyres, but I would be surprised if it was as 'random' as last year.

Edit: on which note, Button says this: http://www.autosport.com/news/report...ce=mostpopular

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Old 24 Feb 2013, 01:51 (Ref:3209790)   #37
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It 's a whole bunch of jibberish that, what is atm a single tyre formula, the tyres have become such as issue. 1 manufacturer choosing to participate means that multiple compounds are unnecessary. It completely demeans/devalues the supposed highest level of motorsport that any manufacturer is asked to develop marshmallow tyres. Whinging fans, he and around the world, who complain that races are drawn out or "boring" are blowing a tornado of hot air.

What those people don't get (even in the F1 industry) is that 300kms is a long, long, looooonnnnnnng way. It 's really is a long way. Unless you totally corrupt the nature of a legit car race, there will always be dead or quiet periods. But no, you/they want a fvee race on steroids. Do something else on a sunday afternoon/night. The only time tyre should become a news story is when it there's a legit competition between two or more manufacturers or when a manufacturer brings in a new development. It is secondary news story otherwise.
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Old 24 Feb 2013, 02:04 (Ref:3209795)   #38
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In defence of Pirelli they produce new tyres every year to keep the teams on their toes.
It seems they've become more of a pain in the ****.

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If they produced the same tyre every season the races could become too predictable, think back to the Bridgestone years.
You might have to review your opinion. 1999 and 2000 were very good seasons. I would not laugh at anyone who thought 2000 was the best year of F1 in the last 20 or so. There was nothing wrong with 2007-10 as far what influence tyres had.


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At least with Pirelli the tyres present a challange to both the drivers and the teams.
What are they?
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Old 24 Feb 2013, 02:44 (Ref:3209808)   #39
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It is secondary news story otherwise.
The sort of news story that you don't want is when one manufacturers tyres actually have a construction failure (Indy 2005) because they have pushed their tyre just a little too far. And if truth be told, that's why you'll never see another tyre war again. The FIA have no influence on how a tyre manufacturer makes an F1 tyre other than its dimensions. With a single tyre provider the FIA can at least be assured that the tyre isn't going to be structurally compromised. Those boring round black things do at least need to be safe.
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Old 24 Feb 2013, 03:33 (Ref:3209825)   #40
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I think Pirelli should arrive at a place where they have a range of tyres that work well at most if not all of the places they visit and then leave it alone, otherwise the teams are constantly chasing the tyre maker..

Now that I know what was going on with Bridgestone and Ferrari-Michael, I am amazed the FIA just stood by and allowed blatant cheating to happen..

Absurd really..
Post of the year - agree completely!


They are control tyres, they should be a constant and no longer a variable.
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Old 24 Feb 2013, 09:46 (Ref:3209907)   #41
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It seems they've become more of a pain in the ****.

You might have to review your opinion. 1999 and 2000 were very good seasons. I would not laugh at anyone who thought 2000 was the best year of F1 in the last 20 or so. There was nothing wrong with 2007-10 as far what influence tyres had.


What are they?
1999 & 2000 were good season but it was the rivalry between McLaren & Ferrari that made it.

In the 2007-10 period Bridgestone made tyres that were probably more suited to endurance racing.

The current tyres are designed to have a limited lifespan and that is what makes the challenge, of which tyre to use and for how long. For the driver it is drive more aggresively and have more pit stops V's drive carefully and have less tyre changes. If you have tyres that last a whole race then it does not present a strategy challenge.
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Old 24 Feb 2013, 11:12 (Ref:3209942)   #42
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1999 and 2000 were catastrophically bad years.

At the time they were tense seasons, with quite close title battles, but go back and watch the individual races now. Dire stuff.

Bridgestone made absolutely rock hard tyres and it was impossible to race on them. Ally that to the wonderful refuelling era and you had a recipe for pooh. So, so boring especially when you got to watch a thrilling CART race later in the day.

This is why Pirelli have a mandate to make tyres that fall apart the moment you leave the pits, unfortunately.
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Old 24 Feb 2013, 13:17 (Ref:3209999)   #43
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They are control tyres, they should be a constant and no longer a variable.
The only thing that changes with regard to the tyres is the compounds taken to each race. These are tyres that all of the teams will have used at each of the three pre-season tests. If they haven't got a clue which tyre is doing what and why during those pre-season tests, then they shouldn't be in F1.

Obvious conclusions drawn so far are that the tyres have a wider operating range and degrade a bit more than last seasons tyres did, which is exactly what Pirelli and the teams said they would do after trialing them during free practice in Brazil.
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Old 24 Feb 2013, 13:27 (Ref:3210002)   #44
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Bridgestone made absolutely rock hard tyres and it was impossible to race on them.
This is true.

Before Pirelli got the contract, Michelin had suggested to the FIA that it would be a good idea to have two or more tyre manufacturers doing the opposite of what Pirelli are doing. That is, make tyres that last for as long as possible with tyre constructor points given to whichever tyre was changed less often by each team/car/driver throughout the season.

If you wanted to hear about nothing but tyres, that was surely the best way to go.
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Old 25 Feb 2013, 02:43 (Ref:3210261)   #45
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In the 2007-10 period Bridgestone made tyres that were probably more suited to endurance racing.
A stint in an endurance race or a whole endurance race?

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The current tyres are designed to have a limited lifespan and that is what makes the challenge, of which tyre to use and for how long. For the driver it is drive more aggresively and have more pit stops V's drive carefully and have less tyre changes. If you have tyres that last a whole race then it does not present a strategy challenge.
You might have to to remind me of specific races where this has occurred. The tyres deteriorate so badly that a supposed strategy is dictated to, rather than a gamble and see if it pays off. In fact, I'm confident in saying the current tyres a designed to create races similar to mandatory refuelling, where people are either used to it to the point where they think that's how it's supposed to be, or they've grown up with up and anything else is abnormal. Despite the fact refuelling had actually been an abnormal feature of F1.

One stop or two? Instead of trying to drag an extra lap out with fuel, you're trying to go as long as you can til a lap before those around you to take advantage of a fresh set. It's nothing, making the curent tyres last an extra lap or two would have nothing to do with driver skill, maybe just a fraction of a pound either way with the suspesion. Nelson Piquet won the 1990 Japanese and Australian GP by making the tyres last the whole way, a tactic he employed for most of the season. I can't remember a recent race where similar has occurred, without having the advantage of a better car on the day.
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