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Old 3 Dec 2013, 09:21 (Ref:3339672)   #31
littleman
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littleman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridlittleman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I've always subscribed to the notion that "Every business reflects the man at the Top".

Until Ecclestone turns his toes up, F1 will remain a mysterious financial Black Hole driven by greed, smugness, devious behaviour and riddled with dubious ethics & practice's.

In short, it is morally bankrupt and borderline corrupt.
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Old 3 Dec 2013, 09:43 (Ref:3339675)   #32
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i agree, but with a little less fist-shaking.

and still people dream and aspire to be a part of it. talk about abusive relationships.
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Old 3 Dec 2013, 12:50 (Ref:3339729)   #33
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littleman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridlittleman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
There is so much money floating around, in every level of motorsport, that it inevitably attracts the high-rollers, ego trippers, opportunist's, plus the devious, dispicable and vermin.
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Old 4 Dec 2013, 08:50 (Ref:3340045)   #34
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wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
An interesting article by Mike Lawrence in Pitpass( ). He talks about the current state of play re finance, governance etc.

http://www.pitpass.com/50611/The-Young-Ones

After reading and other articles in recent times it appears that F1 is getting closer and closer to a cliff edge and does not appear to be able to pull itself back as none of the parties involved have the power to control it. It would not surprise me to see a major implosion/ financial crash as a number of teams pull out under financial stress.
At the moment the owners of Marussia are looking to merge with another team.
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/198741/...ng_merger.html
To me it would make more sense for Marussia and Caterham to go sportscar racing than F1. I think they should get a better return as they get little puplicity in F1 anyway. Sportcar racing would offer them the oppertunity to market their car brand rather than the drivers names. The winner of LeMans is known by the car make first drivers second.
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Old 4 Dec 2013, 09:57 (Ref:3340059)   #35
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They wouldn't win Le Mans, they would be beaten by teams with better resources and more funding. That would only happen once a year though, so I guess that is better

Also, maybe they don't want to. In the same way that Aston or Porsche don't want to do F1.
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Old 4 Dec 2013, 11:22 (Ref:3340079)   #36
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Originally Posted by wolfhound View Post
An interesting article by Mike Lawrence in Pitpass( ). He talks about the current state of play re finance, governance etc.

http://www.pitpass.com/50611/The-Young-Ones

After reading and other articles in recent times it appears that F1 is getting closer and closer to a cliff edge and does not appear to be able to pull itself back as none of the parties involved have the power to control it. It would not surprise me to see a major implosion/ financial crash as a number of teams pull out under financial stress.
At the moment the owners of Marussia are looking to merge with another team.
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/198741/...ng_merger.html
To me it would make more sense for Marussia and Caterham to go sportscar racing than F1. I think they should get a better return as they get little puplicity in F1 anyway. Sportcar racing would offer them the oppertunity to market their car brand rather than the drivers names. The winner of LeMans is known by the car make first drivers second.
Bernie has built it up to a point where no team can actually face it besides RB and Ferrari. Mercedes can follow but are unhappy about it and the rest of the field is simply on the verge of collapse.

Lotus almost fold. Without Maldo's $$, they would haave turned the page and Grosjean was at one point in November on the market for any F1 rescue and even possible endurance programs! If the 4th team on the grid has reached that status, it tells you about the rest... Signing Sirotkin and Kyvat for $$$ is a testimony of that. RB is taking $$ via Torro Rosso just like Mclaren did with Perez... Seriously!!!

For those who say it has always been like that, I reply: the last 2 or 3 teams have always welcomed an attached budget (Minardi, Jordan, etc.) but not 80% of the grid! THIS IS ALARMING INDEED.

And for the last two, I fully agree. They would have such an interesting program in endurance where they could fight for podiums and wins! In F1, Marussia and Caterham are simply burning $$ for no return.
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Old 4 Dec 2013, 19:25 (Ref:3340232)   #37
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littleman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridlittleman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
If Bernie is paying huge appearance money to the likes of Ferrari & RBR then it's about time certain race tracks received similar treatment.There are several GP circuits throughout the World who are just as important to F1 as the teams themselves, maybe more so. They should ALL be given a GP for free or at a huge discount.In return, each circuit must support a National programme to develop it's Stars of the Future.

Nurburgring or Hockenheim
Monza
Spa
Silverstone
Suzuka
Paul Ricard/Le Mans - (France must have a permanent GP)

These tracks and Countries are the backbone of F1 and motorsport in general.
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Old 4 Dec 2013, 20:10 (Ref:3340248)   #38
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If Bernie is paying huge appearance money to the likes of Ferrari & RBR then it's about time certain race tracks received similar treatment.There are several GP circuits throughout the World who are just as important to F1 as the teams themselves, maybe more so. They should ALL be given a GP for free or at a huge discount.In return, each circuit must support a National programme to develop it's Stars of the Future.

Nurburgring or Hockenheim
Monza
Spa
Silverstone
Suzuka
Paul Ricard/Le Mans - (France must have a permanent GP)

These tracks and Countries are the backbone of F1 and motorsport in general.
What about the USA and probably Brazil
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Old 4 Dec 2013, 20:25 (Ref:3340250)   #39
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I believe the concept of a F1 "The pinacle of Motor Sport" will never die. However, unless drastic changes are made its days in its present form are numbered...
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Old 5 Dec 2013, 11:12 (Ref:3340405)   #40
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I believe the concept of a F1 "The pinacle of Motor Sport" will never die. However, unless drastic changes are made its days in its present form are numbered...
Like you say, without drastic changes, it is the beginning of the end. Door's open to Lemans, Indycar or even formula E which is growing day by day... If I were at CVC, I would be very careful how to cap costs asap...
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Old 5 Dec 2013, 13:00 (Ref:3340451)   #41
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Like you say, without drastic changes, it is the beginning of the end. Door's open to Lemans, Indycar or even formula E which is growing day by day... If I were at CVC, I would be very careful how to cap costs asap...
I think they are more concerned with their exit strategy to make even more money, they have no interest in the F1 'product' and developing it at all.

Sadly F1 operates in a totally Darwinian way and the major teams are as guilty of this as anyone.

It is a house of cards waiting to fall over but I fear that due to the many vested interests this will be largely ignored until it is too late.

If I were at FOM I would have FOUR questions in the back of my mind.

Now that Red Bull has achieved so much how long will it want to continue as a team? Long term I can see it continuing to promote the Austrian GP and maybe even sponsoring some other GP's in key markets, or possibly F1 in total - this would keep it's F1 presence without the costs and pressure of running a team (s), particularly IF the winning streak end.

How long will Mercedes bankroll their F1 team if they don't win a title soon

Will any more manufacturers enter F1 as engine suppliers

How many teams will be on the grid still in 2015

Either any or all of the above would change F1 quite substantially and might be precursor to change.
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Old 5 Dec 2013, 15:06 (Ref:3340486)   #42
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Now that Red Bull has achieved so much how long will it want to continue as a team? Long term I can see it continuing to promote the Austrian GP and maybe even sponsoring some other GP's in key markets, or possibly F1 in total - this would keep it's F1 presence without the costs and pressure of running a team (s), particularly IF the winning streak end.
the RB empire has a huge adverting reach and as long as F1 is watched by hundreds of millions then its a question of where they get the better return, traditional advertising or owning an F1 team. arguably they could get the same reach by just being an F1 sponsor.

i'll see if i can find the article but i believe it was Joe Saward who was recently making this point that the RBR budget is still less then the cost of traditional advertising relative to the number of people/markets reached via the F1 team.

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How long will Mercedes bankroll their F1 team if they don't win a title soon
similar logic to the RB advertising point but RBR has won titles so i do think you are right that its a title that makes it worth it.

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Will any more manufacturers enter F1 as engine suppliers
still curious to see how Honda get treated. i sense that Mclaren doesnt command the same level of influence as they used and without a strong partner team any foray into F1 will be uphill.

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How many teams will be on the grid still in 2015
and thats the 10 billion dollar question that CVC have to be asking themselves right now.

great great questions!
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Old 6 Dec 2013, 12:44 (Ref:3340795)   #43
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It's really interesting how Lotus and now Sauber delayed their driver line ups forever. Clearly, all depends on the money talks. I suspect that Lotus and Sauber will be some of the most unstable (in financial sense) teams next year.
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Old 6 Dec 2013, 20:33 (Ref:3341008)   #44
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So we know what the issues are but what do people think the future holds?

Are we going to have a disaster ( lots of teams going under) which forces a change?


Is it too late and could that disaster kill the sport?


Does F1 in its present form have any future?


And what about "The pinnacle of Motor Sport". If this "F1" does collapase what next? A new series forgetting all the baggage?
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Old 6 Dec 2013, 21:16 (Ref:3341041)   #45
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So we know what the issues are but what do people think the future holds?

Are we going to have a disaster ( lots of teams going under) which forces a change?


Is it too late and could that disaster kill the sport?


Does F1 in its present form have any future?


And what about "The pinnacle of Motor Sport". If this "F1" does collapase what next? A new series forgetting all the baggage?
I would imagine 3 or 4 teams going under would cause problems but it does depend on who are the teams that dissapear. If 2 or 3 of the midfield outfits were to go then I suspect that might get all in involved to do something but it will require a shock to the system for anything to happen.
It depends on all involved to pull in the same direction without large quatities of money being taken out of the sport. It will also require everone involved to forget their self interest and work together for the good of the sport.
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