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Old 6 Mar 2016, 21:20 (Ref:3620686)   #31
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Tourer should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Terry S View Post
PLEASE HELP!!!! Where does one find the V8 Supercars rules and regulations on the web?

I seem to have looked everywhere?
They're on the V8 website. Click on the "Championship" tab, then on "Rules & cars" and there you are.
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Old 6 Mar 2016, 22:04 (Ref:3620692)   #32
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Why was it 30, now 60? Does anyone know the rules? Shambles
The whole thing was a bloody shambles.... VERY unprofessional looking.

It was a disaster right from the get-go with no-one even knowing if the race had started.

Also was Bargs asleep for those first part of the race? Why does some simple stuff need to be investigated post race.

Then it seemed that no-one knew the rules on the fuel dump thing, let alone the penalty. Personally I think its tough when a race is shortened.
Maybe 140 litre if the race goes full distance, needs to be done on a percentage scale. (70 litres if the race is called at 50%, 105L @ 75% etc etc)

The commentators either need to know the rules or shut up and as for changing the penalty after the event.... FFS what an amateur operation!

I really expected more from such a big & supposedly professional outfit.
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Old 7 Mar 2016, 01:13 (Ref:3620722)   #33
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Does the fuel dump rules apply to all the races this year or just the longer races?

I also assume this isn't a rule in the ops manual, but a supplemental reg for the relevant race?
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Old 7 Mar 2016, 01:40 (Ref:3620727)   #34
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Perhaps Tim Schenken & Holden Bargs and all the other officials could take a leaf out of the NRL with its new Bunker, it has being given great praise after 1 round.
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Old 7 Mar 2016, 01:43 (Ref:3620729)   #35
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Originally Posted by bortall View Post
Does the fuel dump rules apply to all the races this year or just the longer races?

I also assume this isn't a rule in the ops manual, but a supplemental reg for the relevant race?
relates to certain races

Operations Manual

However, during the Sunday race at the Clipsal 500 Adelaide, the Skycity Triple Crown Darwin and all SuperSprint events, as well as both races at the Castrol EDGE Townsville 400 and Coates Hire Sydney 500, a minimum quantity fuel drop exists. This means that for the specified race, all cars will need to deliver the correct amount of fuel during pit stops. Please see following table for further detail.
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Old 7 Mar 2016, 01:47 (Ref:3620730)   #36
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I just watched a replay of the start again

Watched the lap counter in the coverage click over to lap 4, then about 30 seconds later it flicked to lap 5

My understanding is that originally a lap wasnt being counted under the first lap under the safety car (ie warm up lap), the timing started on the 2nd lap under safety car as Lap 1 of the race and then on the 5th lap under safety car they changed the timing from lap 4 of the race to lap 5 of the race
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Old 7 Mar 2016, 02:00 (Ref:3620735)   #37
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Originally Posted by Tourer View Post
They're on the V8 website. Click on the "Championship" tab, then on "Rules & cars" and there you are.
Thanks for the advice, I never would have found.

I've gone thru their 2016 Operations Manual from Div A to Div F and can't seem to find any mention of the penalty for not loading 140L of fuel.

Can anyone please help?

Also why was the penalty changed from 30 seconds to 60 seconds in the middle of the night.
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Old 7 Mar 2016, 02:22 (Ref:3620740)   #38
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Originally Posted by Terry S View Post
Thanks for the advice, I never would have found.

I've gone thru their 2016 Operations Manual from Div A to Div F and can't seem to find any mention of the penalty for not loading 140L of fuel.

Can anyone please help?

Also why was the penalty changed from 30 seconds to 60 seconds in the middle of the night.
you need the table of penalties to determine that, I dont believe they are in the operations manual or maybe even the international sporting code of the FIA

as per definitions in Division A
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Old 7 Mar 2016, 02:49 (Ref:3620748)   #39
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you need the table of penalties to determine that, I dont believe they are in the operations manual or maybe even the international sporting code of the FIA

as per definitions in Division A
What a Mickey Mouse organisation. So the penalties are a SECRET.

No wonder Pye and Coulthard were confused at the end of the race. Imagine Tim Cendric ringing back to Roger Penske that we really cam second and third but now they have some secret penalty they have made up which drops us way down the field.

And what of the viewing public perception. There was poor Crompton on live TV trying to find penalties that aren't in the book. You could hear his great frustration clearly as he made several attempts.

And as I said above if it is all so clear why was it changed from 30 seconds to 60 seconds overnight?
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Old 7 Mar 2016, 03:02 (Ref:3620755)   #40
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Originally Posted by Terry S View Post
What a Mickey Mouse organisation. So the penalties are a SECRET.

No wonder Pye and Coulthard were confused at the end of the race. Imagine Tim Cendric ringing back to Roger Penske that we really cam second and third but now they have some secret penalty they have made up which drops us way down the field.

And what of the viewing public perception. There was poor Crompton on live TV trying to find penalties that aren't in the book. You could hear his great frustration clearly as he made several attempts.

And as I said above if it is all so clear why was it changed from 30 seconds to 60 seconds overnight?
I don't believe that the penalties are a total secret - the teams are exposed to them and the penalties themselves are set before each season by the Commission, which has team reps on it.

The stewards have a range of penalties available to them and apply the penalties depending on the circumstances - some are straightforward (such as pit lane speeding) some more involved.

Where it falls down is when (as in this case) a commentator is trying to make a live call during a race on what penalty might be applied. That might be in regard to on track incidents, pit lane breaches etc.

Clearly the results at the conclusion of the race had some penalties applied by the stewards - those results immediately after the race are never final and are subject to protests, further stewards hearings etc.

Clearly after further investigation by the stewards the decision was taken that a penalty of 60 seconds was the go for those that didn't fuel.

It's all due process but jeez it's not a good look - made worse by the commentators having NFI in regard to a number of rules through the race, clearly not getting good advice from their assistants and the wide range of confusion that often comes with severe weather conditions such as those seen on Sunday.
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Old 7 Mar 2016, 03:05 (Ref:3620756)   #41
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Originally Posted by Terry S View Post
What a Mickey Mouse organisation. So the penalties are a SECRET.

No wonder Pye and Coulthard were confused at the end of the race. Imagine Tim Cendric ringing back to Roger Penske that we really cam second and third but now they have some secret penalty they have made up which drops us way down the field.

And what of the viewing public perception. There was poor Crompton on live TV trying to find penalties that aren't in the book. You could hear his great frustration clearly as he made several attempts.

And as I said above if it is all so clear why was it changed from 30 seconds to 60 seconds overnight?
No one said it was a secret, its just not in the operations manual.


it was changed because the stewards found that the penalty was not significant enough, Not the first time this has happened, wont be the last, Stewards are always able to look at penalties post race

This happens all through the legal structure of Australia
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Old 7 Mar 2016, 03:10 (Ref:3620757)   #42
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Tourer should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Terry S View Post
Thanks for the advice, I never would have found.

I've gone thru their 2016 Operations Manual from Div A to Div F and can't seem to find any mention of the penalty for not loading 140L of fuel.

Can anyone please help?

Also why was the penalty changed from 30 seconds to 60 seconds in the middle of the night.
All good. The ops manual has been on the V8 website for years, interestingly they used to also have sup regs for each event there but they've stopped doing that for some reason.

The applicable penalties might be in the sup regs.

In regard to the change of penalty after the race (not the middle of the night) please see my post above.

Gotta say that it was a messy Sunday at Clipsal, no doubt about it.

In my view it is made worse by the powers that be getting too cute on the time certain cutoff - it seems to only take a small delay or SC period to move a race into time certain status and to me that is just wrong. It time certain was based on an extra half hour over expected completion, that would probably make more sense.

To me, the 140 litre requirement has always been something of a problem - if some engines aren't competitive on fuel consumption, then they need to adjust their engines and strategy accordingly.
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Old 7 Mar 2016, 03:56 (Ref:3620764)   #43
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Alan52 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridAlan52 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Perhaps Tim Schenken & Holden Bargs and all the other officials could take a leaf out of the NRL with its new Bunker, it has being given great praise after 1 round.
Put Schenken and Bargwanna in the bunker then lock the doors and cut off all communications.Schenken has a history of bringing out the safety car for entertainment value and Bargwanna should have been made to walk the plank after Van Gisbergen taking out Reynolds last year.
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Old 7 Mar 2016, 04:02 (Ref:3620765)   #44
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My understanding is that originally a lap wasnt being counted under the first lap under the safety car (ie warm up lap), the timing started on the 2nd lap under safety car as Lap 1 of the race and then on the 5th lap under safety car they changed the timing from lap 4 of the race to lap 5 of the race
See it's so simple, why couldn't the average punter 5 beers deep at home work that out???
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Old 7 Mar 2016, 06:35 (Ref:3620790)   #45
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See it's so simple, why couldn't the average punter 5 beers deep at home work that out???
Of course they should be able.

Bill Tuckey would often write the Motorsport was the most misunderstood sport and sadly on Sunday we saw why.

I have never seen compulsory pit stops add anything of value to any part of the sport.

Set a race distance and let the teams manage how they get there.
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