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Old 10 May 2017, 18:21 (Ref:3732694)   #31
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Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan View Post
Maybe it's just me, but I don't see why there should be massive promotion in London...I don't associate Silverstone with London.
TV viewers?
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Old 10 May 2017, 18:26 (Ref:3732695)   #32
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TV viewers?
Generally up to the TV company. Channel 4 do billboard adverts throughout the year.
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Old 10 May 2017, 19:25 (Ref:3732703)   #33
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I'd laugh if they brought out the 2004 cars again... the ones that actually produce some noise and spectacle (for the crowds).
Pfft, if you really want to impress people you need to have cars not from 13 years ago, but 30 years.

I live in a hole.
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Old 10 May 2017, 19:42 (Ref:3732707)   #34
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Generally up to the TV company. Channel 4 do billboard adverts throughout the year.
interesting...with BBC gone and not all the races live in the UK anymore i would think there is a shortfall in UK advertising as a result...and thats the fault of FOM.

so as i have said earlier, i think this is a shortfall that FOM should fill and not the venue itself...but that said, Silverstone has a lot of other events and piggybacking promotion for those events on top of what they already do for F1 could be beneficial.

and if FOM wants Silverstone to pick up the tab then i would think this would be a fairly straight forward quid pro quo with Silverstone then being able to command a reduction in their sanctioning fees going forward....afterall it is one of the more successful events on the F1 calendar.

and then there is the issue of long term success. yes they sell out now but will that always be the case in the future?

long term, does a London Formula E city race have the potential to reduce demand for F1 tickets at Silverstone? reduce the demand for corporate ticket sales?

agree to disagree but imo there is benefit for Silverstone in taking on a larger role to promote its marquee event (and by extension the sport of F1 in general) in their closest and largest commercial market.
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Old 10 May 2017, 22:16 (Ref:3732728)   #35
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Chilli, London is no longer a Formula E city; the locals objected to the noise and the disruption leading to the local government rescinding their consent to run the event, and somehow I think it's a strong likelihood that the NIMBYs will stop any future venue in the city.

Back to Silverstone. They already pack in as many spectators that they comfortably can, and at best they can only just manage to break even. That was 2015 (haven't seen the 2016 accounts yet) and in the previous years they made a loss on the race. What incentive could they possibly have had to deepen their losses even more by running a promotion in London that wouldn't earn them a penny more?
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Old 11 May 2017, 09:25 (Ref:3732770)   #36
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Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
Chilli, London is no longer a Formula E city; the locals objected to the noise and the disruption leading to the local government rescinding their consent to run the event, and somehow I think it's a strong likelihood that the NIMBYs will stop any future venue in the city.
OT I know, but the local planning authority (Wandsworth Borough Council) were privately legally challenged as to the validity of the planning consent they granted to run the event in Battersea Park. They lost, although the detail remains private. The noise complaints largely came from music and the TV helicopter rather than the cars!

With the new legislation in place in England & Wales to devolve closed road motorsport decisions to local authorities rather than needing an Act of Parliament we are likely to see more rather than less - but most likely sprints and/or hillclimbs or tarmac rallies, rather than circuit racing. It's a start.
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Old 11 May 2017, 16:15 (Ref:3732823)   #37
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Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
Generally up to the TV company. Channel 4 do billboard adverts throughout the year.
So F1's major sponsors should rely on Channel 4 to get viewers?

If I had some big corporation sponsoring F1, I would be very disappointed if they invest nothing in promoting the race in London.
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Old 11 May 2017, 16:48 (Ref:3732831)   #38
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This business about London not promoting the British GP is a nonsense. The race has absolutely nothing to do with the capital, and in fact is further away from the circuit than Britain's second city, Birmingham. If one was driving to the circuit, it would take about twice as long to travel from London as opposed to the centre of Birmingham.

Next we will be having complaints that Madrid is not promoting the Spanish race or Tokyo the Japanese GP.

It is the FIA and FOM's responsibility to promote these events. The simple question one only needs to ask is what the heck are the circuits paying their multi-million dollar sanctioning fees for?
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Old 11 May 2017, 17:15 (Ref:3732836)   #39
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Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
It is the FIA and FOM's responsibility to promote these events. The simple question one only needs to ask is what the heck are the circuits paying their multi-million dollar sanctioning fees for?
Much of the recent posts are very UK/Silverstone centric, but the above statement is one that strikes a chord with me. From my limited understanding it seems that in general...

* The race promoter is expected to promote the race, but from the perspective of selling tickets for the physical race.
* The broadcast rights holder is expected to promote the race, but from the perspective of those who would be watching on TV

Who is promoting F1 in general? I would think that F1 (Liberty via FOM) should be leading the charge with respect to marketing/promotion. That while the various pieces of the pie (broadcaster, race promoter, etc.) have their individual responsibilities, it should be carried out under a larger umbrella driven by F1 and with a specific marketing strategy and message that flows down into the partners (tracks, broadcasting and maybe even teams to a degree). And that includes a specific amount of promotion that they manage on their own (not related to tracks, TV, etc.).

To the point that Silverstone seems to be sold out on a regular basis, I would expect that maybe F1 would prioritize how and where they devote monetary resources. So they may spend less in the UK and more elsewhere (such as US?) Focus on developing markets, or areas where penetration is low and they can expect some growth.

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Old 11 May 2017, 17:29 (Ref:3732840)   #40
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It is the FIA and FOM's responsibility to promote these events. The simple question one only needs to ask is what the heck are the circuits paying their multi-million dollar sanctioning fees for?
a fair question and i totally agree that FOM should be doing a heck of a lot more and sanctioning fees should be going down in order to facilitate the circuits being able to afford more promotion of their own.

that said, i get that Silverstone sells out so maybe they see little incentive to do more...for me that is an issue.

i think the stakeholders who achieve the most success (get the most prize money or sell the most race tickets) have more of a responsibility to promote the sport, to give back, and to engage with their fan base...success, imo, is certainly not a reason to advocate doing less.

and it doesnt have to be London specifically...any market where F1 fans exist in large enough numbers, or could potentially exist in large numbers, should be places where the organizers, the teams, and the venues (basically anyone who is making money off of us) are actively trying to engage with their fans.

anyways my friend...as always agree to disagree
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Old 11 May 2017, 17:59 (Ref:3732850)   #41
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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
that said, i get that Silverstone sells out so maybe they see little incentive to do more...for me that is an issue.

i think the stakeholders who achieve the most success (get the most prize money or sell the most race tickets) have more of a responsibility to promote the sport, to give back, and to engage with their fan base...success, imo, is certainly not a reason to advocate doing less.


anyways my friend...as always agree to disagree
Cheers to you too, Chilli.

But the problem that you inadvertently highlight is that Silverstone, and this is the venue that Carey criticised in particular, manages to sell out every year, but it has made a loss on the race except for 2015 when they actually managed to break even. And every person that goes to or uses Silverstone throughout the rest of the year are having to pay extra just so that the circuit can be maintained so that it can hold the GP the next year. And the circuit still loses money overall every year.

So how can we, or Carey, expect the BRDC (the owners) to fund anything beyond just keeping the circuit as a going concern. And I think that I am right in thinking that F1 is the only event where the circuits are expected to pay a sanctioning fee to the "promotor" just for the privilege of having the race on their tarmac. If I am right in my beliefs, all the other big races, such as the WEC, pay the circuits for bringing a round to their tracks; a complete reversal.

And I would imagine that at least half the circuits used during the season are in the same financial predicament as Silverstone. Let FOM pay and put something back into the sport instead of being just a leech.
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Old 11 May 2017, 18:27 (Ref:3732856)   #42
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to be honest, and this is just a theory of mine with no supporting evidence, but how much of the venue's losses are actual operating losses or losses created once the local promoters and/or their management companies have taken out their fees, salaries, bonuses etc?

regardless of that though, i see you point, if CC wants the venues to do more, then he needs to willing to incentivize that behaviour and the most obvious method for that is a reduction in sanctioning fees.

so then the question becomes how would the venue make use of that extra money?

if its to promote F1 and/or subsidize their other events then im fine with that as the overall promotion of motorsports is a good thing (and one way we can beat the NIMBY's back).

but if its just for more profit and more money to distribute among themselves then i go back to having a problem.

cynically though i feel like it would be the latter...too many years under the reign of BE and far too many greedy people feeding from the trough. not that i think any of them are bad people per say, just being greedy became the way to survive and succeed at this game.

F1 needs a culture change so for the time being im willing to support CC. some of the things he has done strike me as business as usual but similarly i do believe he is sincere in creating a better partnership with the stakeholders.
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Old 12 May 2017, 04:20 (Ref:3732900)   #43
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But the problem that you inadvertently highlight is that Silverstone, and this is the venue that Carey criticised in particular, manages to sell out every year, but it has made a loss on the race except for 2015 when they actually managed to break even. And every person that goes to or uses Silverstone throughout the rest of the year are having to pay extra just so that the circuit can be maintained so that it can hold the GP the next year. And the circuit still loses money overall every year.

So how can we, or Carey, expect the BRDC (the owners) to fund anything beyond just keeping the circuit as a going concern. And I think that I am right in thinking that F1 is the only event where the circuits are expected to pay a sanctioning fee to the "promotor" just for the privilege of having the race on their tarmac. If I am right in my beliefs, all the other big races, such as the WEC, pay the circuits for bringing a round to their tracks; a complete reversal.

And I would imagine that at least half the circuits used during the season are in the same financial predicament as Silverstone. Let FOM pay and put something back into the sport instead of being just a leech.
Hear, Hear. We in Australia have a situation where V8SC demand all sorts of infrastructure be built at permanent circuits, at vast cost to the venue operator, before they will deem the circuit to be worthy of the V8SC circus. However, non of this infrastructure is entirely necessary for the other 51 weeks, but are all those others users required to subsidise these costs?

Also in Australia, the permanent circuit operators have to pay a fee to V8SC to host a round of the series. Some of them have now realised that fee is more than their likely income, so they simply dry hire the venue to V8SC who manage and promote the event themselves. Has F1 considered taking on the risk and effort of event promotion themselves?
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Old 12 May 2017, 14:32 (Ref:3733001)   #44
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As a promotion, they have approved a chance to win a competition to kip in the Williams garage on the weekend of the British GP. Already they are coming up with better fan experience
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Old 12 May 2017, 14:35 (Ref:3733003)   #45
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If I am right in my beliefs, all the other big races, such as the WEC, pay the circuits for bringing a round to their tracks; a complete reversal.

WEC takes a fee, similar to F1, but significantly smaller. This was the big spanner in the early works of the idea of WEC coming to the Indy road cars. Indy wanted to be paid for the right to use the circuit, WEC wanted paid for coming to Indy.
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