[Driver] Max Verstappen should NOT race in F1 for 2015

[TwoSheds]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Mike started this thread in the Marshall forum (thanks Mike). There may be more posts to follow, but it sounds like for an F1 event... There is generally only "waved flags". Additionally it sounds like decisions on when to wave them (talk was about blue flag) comes from race control, so I assume that also means they also make the judgement as to when someone has not properly moved aside. I expect this varies between series, but I believe that at both F1 and WEC events, race control is able to view all of the track live at all times? So on site cameras (and I assume world feed broadcast as well) plus reports from marshall stations and teams and lastly car telemetry data plus timing and scoring data is likely their eyes and ears. No comments yet from the marshalls regarding "three flags". I assume there is some level of judgement call within race control as to "how long you can ignore a blue flag before you get in trouble". Probably a topic discussed in drivers meeting, or is generally known by the drivers/teams.

Richard

As an active flag marshal (over 25 years experience, and about 15 of those as a flaggie), and having done F1 for most of those years I can say that in the UK we are allowed to blue flag on our own judgement (we do get radio messages warning of car X about to be lapped by car Y, but we still make the decision about when to blue flag) but we also blue flag when requested to by race control.

I do know that at other F1 events, and depnding on the experience level of marshals in those countries, the blue flag decision is made by race control.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Neppatsrev Xam

he kept 2 wheels within the lines, so that's legal, it's only illegal if you leave the track with all 4 wheels.

This is my problem with the Max Verstappen support club. It's that any sort of criticism is shot down with information that is, quite literally, made up.

No. He did not stay between the lines.

[djinvicta]

Don't care who was driving! Good to watch..

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

This is my problem with the Max Verstappen support club. It's that any sort of criticism is shot down with information that is, quite literally, made up.

No. He did not stay between the lines.

Thanks for the picture, I was pretty damn sure I remembered him being 4 wheels off but sadly I was too lazy to dig out the evidence. For myself at the time I thought he'd be made to give it back (and he probably should have been) but I remained mightily impressed even so.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

This is my problem with the Max Verstappen support club. It's that any sort of criticism is shot down with information that is, quite literally, made up.

No. He did not stay between the lines.

Yes, the Verstappen-bots are out in full force.

He did nothing wrong morally IMO. I want guys engaging in hard racing, old school. But according to the rules, he did transgress.

[Akrapovic]

It appears here that most people are in favour of Max being in F1. There are very very few people (if any) now saying he has no place in F1. It seems that most are in agreement that he has had a great year, but a few mistakes. Then there are the people who refuse to accept these mistakes and think he should already be rated up there with Fangio, Clark and Senna.

My take: He's great. A wee breath of fresh air into the staleness of F1. But not everything he does is as incredible as made out. Time will tell if he'll go anywhere, or if he'll ruin his career and turn into a bit of a moron like his father.

[bauble]

This as posted on another forum;

TBH I think there is something being forgotten with all the plaudits he's getting.

He's

4 points from getting a weekend off. Think he has until May to shed some points from his licence. 8 Bernie Bonus points in his rookie year. Thats more than even Crashtor Madanaldo in 2015.

For comparison to get other drivers with more points you have to combine 2 years worth which give Ericsson on 9 and Crashtor on 11. Can't help but think if he was another driver people would be calling for a ban not plaudits.

Not everyone is blinded by his brilliance, obviously.

[Akrapovic]

He got more points than Pastor this year, yeah. But isn't that the way it should be? Pastor has more years under his belt, and Max is a rookie? He's less accident prone than Pastors earlier years isn't he? And he hasn't deliberately rammed cars or anything? That makes him safer than Pastors early years. Did penalty points even exist in the same form in 2012?

I'd also argue that the points are not a good way of judging the driving standards, since Grosjean was given points for an unsafe release from the pits - something he has no control over.

Edit:

http://f1.wikia.com/wiki/Penalty_points

There we go. So during the height of Pastors problems, the system didn't even exist. Only 2 of Max's points were from causing a collision. That's half the amount of points as Hulk, 1 less than Raikkonen and Pastor, and the same as Grosjean, Alonso, Button, etc, etc.

Had this system been around when Pastor was driving into everything that moved (and some things that didn't), and Grosjean found taking turn 1 without causing an accident a complete impossibility, they'd have WAY more points than they currently do. So using a system that was only just introduced to judge drivers as a whole like that is completely misleading.

[Akrapovic]

Just for the sake of discussion, here is Pastors 2012 season

Australia:
2 Points

Monaco:
4 points

Valencia:
2 points

Britain:
2 points

Hungary:
2 points

Belgium:
4 points

India:
2 points

Total:
18 points

And this does not include incidents with Webber (questionable to who was at fault), or any for jump starts and other infringements (if you include these, it goes up to about 22-24). This is for incidents he was at fault at only. So whilst Max can be said to have racked up too many penalty points (and I'd agree), let's not pretend this is even close to Pastors season of carnage.

[JABWOA]

The other thing is that we all waited breathlessly for Pastor to hit something. While with Max, its to wait for his next racing move. Big difference there

[wnut]

Following Max's first win, this thread just had to come back.

[fergus_r]

No, it really didn't.