Open face helmets

[EvilPumpkin]

Following on from a very scary accident at Kirky on Saturday, I'd be interested to get driver feedback on why you would pick an open face helmet.

What are the advantages to it and do you think it affords as much protection as a full face?

[Al Weyman]

Good question and something I can never get my head around and I consider my chin one of my better features and would not want to risk it :-). A mate of mine insists on wearing one in his race car or road bikes and reckons he feels uncomfortable and claustraphobic (spelling?) in a full face but I don't get it, I really think they just want to look like a good old boy NASCAR driver :-)

[EvilPumpkin]

Well just to give you an idea why I'm asking. We had a particularly nasty accident with a Lotus at the weekend and during the course of the accident, the helmet left the driver's head. We found it 15 metres from the car. The helmet was an open face and the chin strap was still fastened. Obviously, we can't say for sure, but what we suspect happened was that either during or after the roof of the car came off, the force pulled at the helmet and pulled it forward over the driver's head. This meant that for the rest of the accident, he had no helmet and no roof to the car.

If this WAS the mechanism that forced the helmet off, then I don't believe that could have happened with a full face helmet.

I don't have a lot of experience with helmets, so I'm open to correction on this!

I also don't know if this is a known issue with this type of helmet.

And I'm wondering if the open face helmet does actually have any benefits for the driver?

[Tim Falce]

Was the driver OK? I am not so sure that being a full face or not would prevent it coming off in certain circumstances. I have a full face helmet but I always check the strap and pull forward on the helmet to check it is secure as sometimes if the strap isn't properly tightened it will pull forward and off.

[EvilPumpkin]

The info we've received is that there are no serious (for serious read life threatening) injuries - a couple of breaks and a lot of cuts and abrasions, but given the violence of the accident, he got away very lightly. There's some pics of before and after in this post in National and Club forum.

Have you considered an open face helmet?

[Al Weyman]

Sounds nasty, maybe its a good job it came off as it may have pulled his head off if sufficient force. I think slamming your face into a steering wheel with an open face and loosing all your teeth should be enough reason not to wear one but I dont know, seems the rally boys favour them probably something to do with communication with the co-driver but we all know thats less dangerous (yeah right!)

[EvilPumpkin]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Sounds nasty, maybe its a good job it came off as it may have pulled his head off if sufficient force.

That's one of the things I'm wondering about, particularly in light of Falce's post. Would a closed face have stayed on, and if not, could it have actually done more damage.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by EvilPumpkin

Have you considered an open face helmet?

Never, and I have had too much debris hit my visor and helmet to even think about it, but then I drive an open car.
Looking at the picture of the Elan, it may look worse than it is. Although the car is a mess, don't forget the body is all GRP and would disintegrate quite easily. The cage seems intact and fairly straight but his crash helmet coming off is a worry.
Edited: I just looked at the other photos and the structure of the car seems good, no wheels off and it looked fairly straight. It also looked quite repairable, the panels have just delamenated (Apart from the rear corner) and the roof is probably removable anyway which could account for it flying off.

[MagnetON]

Roof wasn't removable, the A + B pillars detatched. The fuel tank detatched. Roll Cage presented with a large visible crack on the drivers left A pillar.

[Tim Falce]

Fair enough but the cage is still intact and did its job. Even after the accident there is more protection on that car than mine has.

[MagnetON]

I think we're in danger of going well off topic with this. The point is not the damage to the car (which looks spectacular but is 90% bodywork and so easily fixed), the point is that the drivers open-face helmet was ripped off his head in the incident and what are peoples feelings about open-face vs full-face helmets.

[Tim Falce]

Full face only IMO

[BertMk2]

Mine is open face but I don't have a steering wheel to worry about in front of me - also I like to keep the dash in front of me clear of timing gear, switches etc. It's easier to communicate with my driver (and people at time controls) with an open face. I'm also not 100% sure that a full face helmet wouldn't pull off it sufficient force was applied. Scary thought though.

[EvilPumpkin]

Yep, my concern is why the helmet came off and would it have been any different with a closed face helmet. I'm also interested in the reasons for choosing an open face.

I can see where it could be a plus for communication in a two person drive. Would I be correct in saying that you also get better visibility with an open face?

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by EvilPumpkin

Would I be correct in saying that you also get better visibility with an open face?

Possibly, but visibility isn't a big issue for me as I'm only really looking at the notes and any reference points (and they're hugely obvious anyway). It may be more of an issue for drivers though.

[Micky.H]

Just another line of thought, if 'stuck' in a saloon type car following a 'biggy' wouldn't an open face helmet give the rescue crews easier access to the drivers airway without trying to remove a helmet in a closed environment?

[KleisJ]

Maybe the chin strap wasnt tight enough?
I use full face even i dont drive open car. I feel safer with it. It has disadvantages one of them that you dont have an open breathing area as with the open face. Also if you wear glasses there could be a small chance in some cases that they get misty.
But again I wouldnt use open face since I feel better that my chin is not exposed. I guess that this issue is up to the crew, since you see the open face ones used in the WRC by top drivers. If safety wasn't as good, open face helmets wouldn't be used I suppose.

[hometune]

I've always gone for a full face in a closed car and feel safer because of it. Before I began racing I remember John Cleland having an accident in touring cars I think, ( although it may have been thunder saloons) in which he had a open face helmet come off. He vowed never to wear open face again and it's always made me think.

I also think that it's worth having the extra protection from anything entering the car in a big accident.

[dtype38]

Ok, rumour control. Seems to be a lot of people speculating on wearing an open face without actual experience, so here's the deal.

I spent nearly two seasons in my open car in an Arai GP Jet open face, using a full face balaclava and fire resistant goggles. The helmet was such a snug fit that it pushed my cheeks up and forward like you see on any properly fitting full face. There was absolutely no way it could be pushed off forwards with the chin strap done up. I tried and nearly strangled myself. In my particular car, the driving position is similar to a single seater and, IMHO, the only chance of my chin getting any where near anything hard in an accident would be if my spine and neck had already stretched well beyond survivable limits.

OK, the upsides: you can talk to mechanics/marshalls/officials in the paddock, on the grid, and even in a gravel trap, easily and clearly. You don't get a fogged up visor no matter how damp it is or hard you breathe. And, most importantly for me, the wind rush at 100mph+ is awesome! Takes your breath away, you might say! Serious driving experience!

So now to the downsides: I once had a small stone manage to bounce over my screen and hit me in the chin. Bloody sore it was too! Oh, and then I got my car tuned enough to get over 120mph the pressure on my goggles was starting to hurt my nose.

But then the thing went out of date and I had to decide what to get as a replacement. After a lot of agonising I decided to go with the general concensus that full face helmets are safer and went for an Arai GP5K... and the difference is remarkable.

I now feel so isolated and remote in my little full face cacoon that I think I might as well be in a saloon! It's quieter, which I don't particularly like (I love to hear my own car when I'm racing), it fogs up when its wet, and I can't talk to anyone without shouting!

I think you might have gathered that I preferred my open face.... but then came HANS devices. As has been discussed at length in other threads, they have their pros and cons, but I decided to buy one and now use it every time I'm on track. By their nature, in an accident it will control my head movement only by virtue of how well my head is located in my helemt in a fore-aft direction. In which case, I think I would prefer a squashed nose on my visor, than being strangled by the weight of my head popping out the front of my open face! Go figure

[JohnD]

No idea if this is relevant, but Blue Book, Section Q p.240, Para Q 10.3.2 (d),
"With head forward attempt to pull up the back of the helmet, as shown in the diagram above, to ensure the helmet CANNOT BE REMOVED IN THIS WAY."
My capitals.

Cunningly, the diagram conceals whether it is a full or open face helmet!
There is no attempt to discriminate between the two types in the Blue Book.

John

[terence]

Hi,just been having a look at some of the interesting comments,I personaly think that as this lucky chap has come out ofthis accident reasonably intact, I have to ask what helmet was he wearing-was he ,has he ever been briefed on how to tighten the chin strap, was the helmet to big etc etc.I always wear an open face in a closed car and full in anything open. ever tried doing up your harness wiyh a full face on? And yes, stones on the chin do hurt!!!!

[Peter Mallett]

John,

It does'nt matter whether its full face or open. You should not be able to remove the helmet with the strap done up (and the chinguard on a full face does nothing to keep the helmet on one's head). Also I get the impression that the helmet in EP's example came off backwards, if so that would definitely suggest that the strap was undone because even a loose strap will still stop the helmet from peeling off backwards (remember button at Hockenheim last year?

As to full or open face I believe these days you have to run full face in open cars but you have the choice in closed cockpit cars.

[EvilPumpkin]

I'm not saying open faced helmets are bad - I'm really interested in the differences and why people make the choice. As you may have gathered, this particular incident made quite an impression on me - it's not something I've even considered before.

Pete, we're not sure how the helmet came off, but we believe it must have gone forward. The chin strap was definitely closed.

[Peter Mallett]

I know a lot of guys like open faced helmets because of the claustrophobia effect of a full face. Others think a full face restricts peripheral vision.

The touring car full face helmets are quite comfortable and they are specially designed with a wider vision opening than the open car full face helmet which also carries a visor.

I used to use an open face and I found it no better for breathing etc. than a full face.

If the helmet in your example came off with the strap closed it wasn't done up tight enough.

[Eddy V]

According to the picture the helmet seems to be a Bell Mag4. Normally very good helmets, so I go for the "not tightened well" option as well.
Maybe the flying roof knocked the helmet off, as the driver seems to be sitting very close to it.

I used to race in full face helmets, with visor. After one big in-car fire, I knew why this was the only option.