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Old 7 Jan 2017, 10:01 (Ref:3700761)   #1
bauble
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Threat to Motorsport From EU

In the landmark ‘Vnuk’ case, the European Court of Justice ruled in 2014 that the EU’s 2009 Motor Insurance Directive required insurance policies to cover all possible third-party accidents in all places and at all times. In some countries, including*the United Kingdom and Ireland, governments had interpreted the law as meaning*that it only applies to vehicles driven on public roads, however it is now clear that the*judgment means that national laws must be changed to ensure that all mechanically propelled vehicles are insured for third-party losses regardless of type of use, in all places, at any time. This applies to everything from Formula One racing cars, to mobility scooters, to antique trams and everything in-between. Industry experts have already claimed that the risks associated with providing insurance cover to all motorised vehicles mean that they would be prohibitively expensive to insure, thus effectively outlawing all motorsport activities across the United Kingdom.
HM Government opened a consultation on Wednesday 21st December with two clear options. First, to pursue the “Comprehensive option” which would involve changing UK motor insurance law to comply with the Motor Insurance Directive as interpreted in the Vnuk judgement. Second, the Government’s preferred “Amended Directive option” which would involve changing UK law on motor insurance to implement the Motor Insurance Directive as amended, should the European Commission pursue its proposal to amend it.
While the United Kingdom remains a member of the European Union, the UK is obligated to make this change. We, the undersigned petition HM Government through*the Secretary of State for Transport, The Rt. Hon. Chris Grayling, M.P., asking that*HM Government under no circumstances implements the 'Vnuk' judgement in a way that*encompasses vehicles involved in motor and motorcycle sport activities.

www.fightvnuk.co.uk

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Old 7 Jan 2017, 11:16 (Ref:3700780)   #2
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Thank you for the link Bob. Some of us did briefly discuss this on tea break before xmas, but now we have a link those not impressed can register their displeasure.....

Of course we could have left the EU before it happens , but IMHO we should all sign the petition......
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Old 7 Jan 2017, 12:14 (Ref:3700789)   #3
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This is being looked at by the international motorsport governing body, at the moment, there is no true treat to motor sport with EU Commission not set on extending it to motor sport. Will keep you posted.
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 08:34 (Ref:3700944)   #4
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Thanks for the input Louis. But aren't we talking about something which has already happened or at least close to?
Read from the next french historic GP of Magny-Cours regulation, this only concerns the F1 during free practice not the race:
3.L’obligation d’assurance automobile * laquelle sont soumis tous les véhicules * moteur (en application de l’article L. 211-1 du Code des assurances). Sorry for the language.
Not forgetting that in France you could be responsible for any damage done on other people, goods or circuit premises when racing if my understanding is good. Some of us had already to pay for the guard rails replacement, its not cheap.
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 08:44 (Ref:3700946)   #5
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Could I add that when we sign the waiver of liability we acknowledge that in case of lost of control and/or technical issue of the vehicle we disclaim organizers of any and all liability . In french words - sorry again please mod me if any inconvenient - you are firmly engaged to read our Code Civil, article 1384 alinéa 1. Which i didn't so far. But this year before filling the licence form I will read most of the articles about insurance.
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Old 9 Jan 2017, 16:16 (Ref:3701296)   #6
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Could I add that when we sign the waiver of liability we acknowledge that in case of lost of control and/or technical issue of the vehicle we disclaim organizers of any and all liability . In french words - sorry again please mod me if any inconvenient - you are firmly engaged to read our Code Civil, article 1384 alinéa 1. Which i didn't so far. But this year before filling the licence form I will read most of the articles about insurance.
Gerard, what you are refering to here is specific to certain circuits.

To lower costs and liability, some organisers do not cover certain costs like these, due to insurance or to the extra costs of having to replace 200 meters of guardrails.

I know this as from organising back in Dijon, we as organiser did cover it all but since then, times have changed and truly, when it's 10 meter, it's okay, when it's half of the circuit, it gets very expensive.
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Old 13 Jan 2017, 13:40 (Ref:3702335)   #7
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Personally, and with no disrespect to our European friends, I think we, as a country, should just say "No thanks, stick these barmy ideas up your ar*e, we're leaving!"
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Old 13 Jan 2017, 13:52 (Ref:3702340)   #8
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Personally, and with no disrespect to our European friends, I think we, as a country, should just say "No thanks, stick these barmy ideas up your ar*e, we're leaving!"
We are leaving, but at a pace that makes Dr Nefario's scooter look positively speedy.....

One side issue of the proposal as written is that cars (classic or not) on SORN would have to be kept insured for 3rd party risks even if in bits in your garage!
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Old 13 Jan 2017, 14:36 (Ref:3702352)   #9
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We are leaving, but at a pace that makes Dr Nefario's scooter look positively speedy.....

One side issue of the proposal as written is that cars (classic or not) on SORN would have to be kept insured for 3rd party risks even if in bits in your garage!
That makes perfect sense Mike, suppose some nere do well broke into your garage, tripped over a loose crankshaft, fell on a stub axle and needed hospital treatment to have it removed, you would then have the requisite insurance cover when he sued you for not having a light on at all times on your property to aid any member of the criminal fraternity access your valuables.

Chaps like you are only too willing to trample over someone's 'Human Rights'.

Shame on you.
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Old 13 Jan 2017, 17:34 (Ref:3702386)   #10
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Personally, and with no disrespect to our European friends, I think we, as a country, should just say "No thanks, stick these barmy ideas up your ar*e, we're leaving!"
With all my respect of course, didn't you say that few months ago? Or maybe its my understanding … Maybe because of the missing english letter ! Will try to find it in French then !
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Old 14 Jan 2017, 10:53 (Ref:3702506)   #11
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That makes perfect sense Mike, suppose some nere do well broke into your garage, tripped over a loose crankshaft, fell on a stub axle and needed hospital treatment to have it removed, you would then have the requisite insurance cover when he sued you for not having a light on at all times on your property to aid any member of the criminal fraternity access your valuables.

Chaps like you are only too willing to trample over someone's 'Human Rights'.

Shame on you.
Unfortunately that comes under the occupier's act and has been law for many years. If a trespasser is injured because you failed to warn of the danger, the Occupier is liable for damages. Of course that may be a way around the "car in parts" issue.

As to leaving the EU any laws passed that relate to the EU won't automatically be repealed. There's an awful lot of laws and regulations that we will need to keep in order to trade with the EU, an example being the less powerful kettles etc.
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Old 20 Jan 2017, 14:45 (Ref:3703837)   #12
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Article in this month's MSA Extra on this...page 4-5

https://issuu.com/motorsportsassocia...a_news_82_0117
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Old 20 Jan 2017, 15:04 (Ref:3703843)   #13
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This is the same article, but in a PDF format which is easier to manipulate and read: https://www.msauk.org/assets/msavnukjan2017.pdf
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Old 20 Jan 2017, 15:57 (Ref:3703856)   #14
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Well, with the MSA and FIA both lobbying for Motorsport to be exempt, would be good to think the legislation will be modified accordingly....
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Old 28 Jan 2017, 09:40 (Ref:3705746)   #15
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Personally, and with no disrespect to our European friends, I think we, as a country, should just say "No thanks, stick these barmy ideas up your ar*e, we're leaving!"
Could not agree more, just think, and I am serious, Mod sports to the original Dixon or STP rules, No EU, No FIA No appendixes true unhindered historic club racing
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