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Old 8 Sep 2013, 20:22 (Ref:3300634)   #16
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Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull View Post


2013 Monza - Fernando Alonso attempts to pass Red Bull's Mark Webber entering the Variante della Roggia chicane. The two enter side-by-side, go through side-by-side, before Alonso cuts across Webber on the exit, preventing the Australian from getting on the power, before making slight contact with his front wing, causing damage very similar to that that caused Kimi Raikkonen to pit for repairs as it slowed him down. This could've cost Webber 2nd place, and Red Bull a 1-2 finish. Alonso received 0 penalties.

People are complaining about steward inconsistencies, and this is a big one right here.
I personally thought it was a brilliant overtake.
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Old 8 Sep 2013, 20:23 (Ref:3300635)   #17
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In the hospitality bar?
Hell yeah ! As long as they have some good guest ale !

Last edited by andy666; 8 Sep 2013 at 20:25. Reason: Bloody Kindle predictive text !
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Old 8 Sep 2013, 23:14 (Ref:3300684)   #18
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With all due respect, I think it's a load of tosh, mate.


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I have to agree.
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Old 8 Sep 2013, 23:57 (Ref:3300705)   #19
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I didn't consider that there was so much controversy about the racing between Alonso and Webber today until I came here. Now I realise there was none, even if you desperately look really hard.
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Old 8 Sep 2013, 23:57 (Ref:3300706)   #20
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Originally Posted by andy666 View Post
I saw no problem with today's Alonso/Webber battle, always good respectful driving between the two (gonna miss it next year !) Your example of the Spa Perez/RoGro battle I still disagree with , no way should Perez have received a penalty ! I think I may apply to the FIA to be a Steward !
This was being discussed by the NBC crew during practice or qualies (can't remember which). They noted that McNish (the driver rep on the steward's team) was frustrated that there was only a stop and go penalty that could be applied in that situation. Apparently the FIA are considering adding an option for a 5-second penalty that can be assessed at race end. May not be a bad thing if it happens.
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Old 9 Sep 2013, 04:20 (Ref:3300788)   #21
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Originally Posted by fergus_r View Post
Alonso made a good move today and Webber gave him racing room. It was a proper overtake, with full respect from both drivers. It's refreshing to see a genuine overtake especially after Spa where DRS is far too powerful down the Kemmel Straight.
I thought Webber made it way too easy, no defence at all!
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Old 9 Sep 2013, 06:25 (Ref:3300813)   #22
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I thought Webber made it way too easy, no defence at all!
There's a surprise.
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Old 9 Sep 2013, 14:43 (Ref:3301001)   #23
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He tried so hard...
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Old 10 Nov 2017, 11:02 (Ref:3779758)   #24
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HOLY THREAD MINE BATMAN!

Thought this thread would be a better place to post this.


It is no big secret that the FiA and FOM have in the past, and still do, like to see Ferrari up front and/or winning frequently. There has been some comments made recently by BE regarding the Ferrari favouritism during his time, and even more recently. Some snippets from the article below.
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Bernie Ecclestone: "Helping Ferrari has always been the smartest thing to do.

“And it always has always been done through the technical regulations.

“Teams are important for F1, but Ferrari is the most. That's why over the years, many things have been done that have helped Maranello win."

"Max has often helped Ferrari. And I too. We all wanted the Ferrari to win.

“A season won by Ferrari is more valuable than a season won by others. But look, teams have an interest in challenging a competitive Ferrari. It is one thing to win against Sauber, but another to win against a red car from Maranello.”

Earlier this year, I posted about how Mercedes helped Ferrari with their PU development. Which, as usual, was an opportunity for a jab.
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Originally Posted by F1Guy View Post
Just as there was no 'official statements' when Mercedes helped Renault and Ferrari with their PU's. But for most, if an 'official statement' has not been released, then it didn't happen. Not everything that happens in the F1 paddock is put on paper. Most things still work on a hand shake. A 'contract' or an 'agreement', means diddly squat in F1. They can be made and broken with a simple nod of the head, or a handshake. No signed papers required.

Some comments regarding the issue of Mercedes helping Ferrari were also made recently. Bernie said a few things, without saying too much.
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Bernie Ecclestone: "In this case, no one can know except the one who did ... Certainly at one point a hand with the engine was there.”

“Mercedes – and for good reason. A world championship won against Sauber is one thing. One won against Ferrari is another.”

“And if Mercedes had decided to translate technology to Maranello, I say it was a good move.

“It is also certain that with the friendly situation between the two teams, the best thing for Stuttgart in 2017 was to make sure that a) that Red Bull did not have the most powerful engines and b) Ferrari was competitive enough to be a credible rival to beat.”
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Red Bull's Christian Horner: “It’s very clear that there’s a very tight relationship between Ferrari and Mercedes, the way they operate in meetings, one won’t lift the hand up without the other one being in agreement these days. So there is that dynamic.

“It’s not the first time that’s happened in Formula 1, it won’t be the last time. As far as whether or not one has helped the other, that’s not our business. I’ve got no idea. I’d be surprised but yeah… what you see with Mercedes and Ferrari today, they’re very aligned in all of their thinking.”
Certainly not "proof" that FiA/FOM prefer to see Ferrari winning. And nothing "concrete" on Mercedes helping Ferrari. But it's interesting nonetheless.

I doubt if there will ever be full disclosure on the deals made behind F1's closed garage doors. So if anyone is waiting for a "official statement" regarding these issues, you might be waiting for quite a while.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/e...-rival-971625/
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Old 10 Nov 2017, 15:35 (Ref:3779796)   #25
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Bernie is speaking a load of pony. Merc wouldn’t want to give advantage away. Ferrari are good enough to challenge without help. But I’m not surprised Ferrari have been helped from within, remember Michelin-gate in 2003? That still leaves a bitter taste to me
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Old 11 Nov 2017, 08:58 (Ref:3779894)   #26
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Merc wouldn’t want to give advantage away. Ferrari are good enough to challenge without help.
I'm not sure Mercedes have. If anything, I think Mercedes have gained more from helping Ferrari. A healthy rivalry will always produce better results.

I'm sure Ferrari are good enough to challenge without help. But this is not the first time two rival teams have worked together in F1. And it won't be the last. This season has been a cracker. Much better than the last few. Everyone wins as a result; yes?

As I said, this is not the first, and won't be the last time that two rival teams have worked together behind closed doors for the better of F1. It's difficult for some to comprehend why rivals would want to work together. But at the end of the day, F1 is for entertainment, and if the punters are not entertained, we all lose.
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Old 11 Nov 2017, 11:49 (Ref:3779902)   #27
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But the punters would rather see the racing fought fairly
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Old 11 Nov 2017, 14:27 (Ref:3779915)   #28
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Originally Posted by F1Guy View Post
I'm not sure Mercedes have. If anything, I think Mercedes have gained more from helping Ferrari. A healthy rivalry will always produce better results.

I'm sure Ferrari are good enough to challenge without help. But this is not the first time two rival teams have worked together in F1. And it won't be the last. This season has been a cracker. Much better than the last few. Everyone wins as a result; yes?

As I said, this is not the first, and won't be the last time that two rival teams have worked together behind closed doors for the better of F1. It's difficult for some to comprehend why rivals would want to work together. But at the end of the day, F1 is for entertainment, and if the punters are not entertained, we all lose.
Wait a minute. So nkw Mercedes haven't given up their advantage? So are we back to Vettel being a top driver since he's challenged for the championship in an inferior car?
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Old 12 Nov 2017, 00:49 (Ref:3779978)   #29
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But the punters would rather see the racing fought fairly
That's true. But how many of the punters would know about what really happens behind closed doors? Majority of the F1 punters are only interested in qualifying and the race.

Even the die hard F1 fans like us won't buy it unless there's an "official statement" released on the subject. Subjects such as Ferrari being helped by Mercedes, or Ferrari being helped by the FiA and/or FOM are polarising, and I doubt there will ever be anything official, unless someone who was involved spills the beans. But even then, it's thrown out as rubbish. Too controversial.

They say, where there's smoke there's fire. But most of us F1 punters won't even see the smoke signals because the FiA's fire safety blanket will quickly hide the smoke before it break out in a fire. But every now and then, a small (sometimes deliberately lit) flame may escape, and may take some years to intensify.
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Old 12 Nov 2017, 11:02 (Ref:3780027)   #30
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The fans are more switched on than you think, they would rather see good close racing, with no artificial means and would rather see the driver and team doing the best job winning
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