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Old 8 Sep 2013, 16:00 (Ref:3300520)   #1
Biscuits In A Red Bull
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Biscuits In A Red Bull should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridBiscuits In A Red Bull should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
So you like Ferrari winning?

People always say that FIA favour Ferrari over other F1 teams, and, after the previous 3 years at their home race, Monza, it's now becoming clear that that is the case.

2011 Monza - Fernando Alonso (Ferrari) forces Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull) onto the grass and gravel on the outside of the flat-out Curve Grande corner as the German tries to pass him for the lead of the Grand Prix. Vettel keeps his foot flat to the floor, and gets past, in the best overtake of his career.

2012 Monza - Vettel returns the favour on Alonso. For once, Vettel being famed for lack of overtaking ability, whilst Alonso being famed as a warrior, ends up being a farce, as Alonso immediately backs out of the move, before complaining on the team radio. Vettel gets a drive-through penalty.

2013 Spa - Sergio Perez (McLaren) makes a valid DRS-assisted pass on Lotus' Romain Grosjean along the Kemmel Straight. Thinking he is past, the Mexican moves over on the Frenchman, forcing him onto the outside kerb, and Grosjean aborts Les Combes, feeling he'll only cause a crash. Perez is given a drive-through penalty for forcing another car off of the track, when 2 of Grosjean's 4 wheels were beyond the white line that marks the track, and the incident had very little impact on the Frenchman's race.

2013 Monza - Fernando Alonso attempts to pass Red Bull's Mark Webber entering the Variante della Roggia chicane. The two enter side-by-side, go through side-by-side, before Alonso cuts across Webber on the exit, preventing the Australian from getting on the power, before making slight contact with his front wing, causing damage very similar to that that caused Kimi Raikkonen to pit for repairs as it slowed him down. This could've cost Webber 2nd place, and Red Bull a 1-2 finish. Alonso received 0 penalties.

People are complaining about steward inconsistencies, and this is a big one right here.
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Old 8 Sep 2013, 16:08 (Ref:3300527)   #2
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I didn't see today's 'incident' like you at all. For me, Webber had clearly lost the corner - he actually knew it, but didn't get out of it soon enough. It's a corner which will produce this kind of incident (and praise the Lord for the fact that we still have one or two left). I didn't see this one as Alonso forcing Webber out of the way though....


And how does example #3 relate to the thread title?
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Old 8 Sep 2013, 16:13 (Ref:3300531)   #3
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With all due respect, I think it's a load of tosh, mate.

Ferrari have been pretty rubbish by their own expectations. Red Bull have wiped the floor with the competition.

If the FIA are favouring them, they're doing a pretty rubbish job of it.

Selby
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Old 8 Sep 2013, 16:21 (Ref:3300538)   #4
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I didn't see today's 'incident' like you at all. For me, Webber had clearly lost the corner - he actually knew it, but didn't get out of it soon enough. It's a corner which will produce this kind of incident (and praise the Lord for the fact that we still have one or two left). I didn't see this one as Alonso forcing Webber out of the way though....


And how does example #3 relate to the thread title?
Spot on, Ayse. Webbo is tenacious at defending a pass. I have no issue with that. Sometimes he can be too tenacious and today was an example of that. Great defending by him and a great pass by Alonso...

And remind me again who has won at Monza every year since Alonso won in 2010?
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Old 8 Sep 2013, 16:23 (Ref:3300540)   #5
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With all due respect, I think it's a load of tosh, mate.

Ferrari have been pretty rubbish by their own expectations. Red Bull have wiped the floor with the competition.

If the FIA are favouring them, they're doing a pretty rubbish job of it.

Selby
Exactly. If this is the way the FIA favour Ferrari, Ferrari probably wish they would stop it.
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Old 8 Sep 2013, 16:28 (Ref:3300543)   #6
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Biscuits In A Red Bull should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridBiscuits In A Red Bull should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Example 3 is showing inconsistncies. Perez gets a punishment, Alonso doesn't. 2011 and 2012 were obvious.
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Old 8 Sep 2013, 16:38 (Ref:3300549)   #7
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I accept you're entitled to your opinion........
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Old 8 Sep 2013, 16:39 (Ref:3300550)   #8
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The first 3 are all different to the last though, they all relate to forcing a car off the track which Alonso clearly didn't do in the race today
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Old 8 Sep 2013, 17:15 (Ref:3300560)   #9
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If the FIA were really interested in favouring Ferrari, they'd have found all manner of reasons to pull RBR back from their technical dominance.

They haven't.

I saw today's pass as being perfectly fair - hard, but fair. Fred had been lining up for it for two or three laps and eventually got Webber where he needed him to be, and took the chance. The contact with Webber's front wing could just as easily have given Alonso a puncture, and it didn't hold Webber back as much as it could have done.

(I note that the damage was nowhere near as bad as Kimi's ram-up-the-backside job on Perez)

The cool-down room part was telling - both Webber and Alonso were all smiles and seemed quite happy with their race relative to each other.

One thing which is quite apt, currently - Jean Todt absolutely cannot afford to have the FIA *at any level* favouring his former teams at Peugeot or Ferrari. That would be too obvious.
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Old 8 Sep 2013, 17:22 (Ref:3300568)   #10
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(I note that the damage was nowhere near as bad as Kimi's ram-up-the-backside job on Perez)
Quite so. I wondered when they said that the incident between..... actually I forgot who it was between now.... was being investigated and wondered why they weren't investigating Kimi's punt.....
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Old 8 Sep 2013, 17:56 (Ref:3300584)   #11
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fergus_r should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Alonso made a good move today and Webber gave him racing room. It was a proper overtake, with full respect from both drivers. It's refreshing to see a genuine overtake especially after Spa where DRS is far too powerful down the Kemmel Straight.
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Old 8 Sep 2013, 18:19 (Ref:3300596)   #12
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TrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
All the Ferrari International Assistance jibes had solid justification in the past, but I've seen no evidence for it in recent years.

As for the Webber/Alonso incident today, I thought it was Webber who was stretching the limits of acceptability. I don't think he quite gave Alonso a genuine car's width in the braking area (perhaps I should look at it again) and he was too slow to concede that the place was lost.
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Old 8 Sep 2013, 19:50 (Ref:3300619)   #13
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"So you like Ferrari winning ?"

As much as any other team ? Why do you ask ?
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Old 8 Sep 2013, 19:56 (Ref:3300622)   #14
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andy666 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridandy666 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I saw no problem with today's Alonso/Webber battle, always good respectful driving between the two (gonna miss it next year !) Your example of the Spa Perez/RoGro battle I still disagree with , no way should Perez have received a penalty ! I think I may apply to the FIA to be a Steward !
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Old 8 Sep 2013, 19:59 (Ref:3300625)   #15
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I think I may apply to the FIA to be a Steward !

In the hospitality bar?
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