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Old 13 Nov 2017, 14:19 (Ref:3780184)   #151
RWill2073
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RWill2073 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRWill2073 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRWill2073 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRWill2073 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I still think with the car being a diva and having a narrow sweet spot, that all in season development favored hamilton more, since he is the primary driver and they know what works for him more. It's gotta be easier to develop things in a way they know will help hamilton than it is for a new driver to the team. And I seem to remember quotes about the car not really matching bottas' driving style and the team saying that wasn't his fault. So I don't think we have an apples to apples comparison between the two yet.
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Old 13 Nov 2017, 15:10 (Ref:3780190)   #152
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to add a thought to that...Bottas was a late signing and i wonder how much of his shortcomings were down to not being as well prepared for 2017 as he could have been, years at Williams would have led him to underestimate what is required of a top tier driver, what it takes to be and stay competitive over the course of a whole season?

i suppose one could say that a season is long enough to get up to speed but i think that also diminishes just how high the bar was set by NR and LH and just how relentless the pressure/pace he had to contend with over this season.

2018 will be the real test, although the one year extension may indicate that he will only have part of 2018 (maybe up until the summer break) to prove he can take the next step.
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Old 13 Nov 2017, 17:20 (Ref:3780217)   #153
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S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
To me he only really made one mistake and that was at the first corner, apart from that I didn't see too much wrong, he was close enough to almost leapfrog him at the first stop, but just wasn't to be
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Old 13 Nov 2017, 19:02 (Ref:3780243)   #154
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To me he only really made one mistake and that was at the first corner, apart from that I didn't see too much wrong, he was close enough to almost leapfrog him at the first stop, but just wasn't to be
Vettel was pretty aggressive into T1... if Bottas hadn't jinked his steering a tad to the right they would have collided.

Vettel's desperate driving again?
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Old 13 Nov 2017, 19:14 (Ref:3780244)   #155
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People are making out like he was miles off or something. In reality, Bottas only finished second to a four time world champion. That's not bad.
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Old 13 Nov 2017, 19:25 (Ref:3780248)   #156
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to add a thought to that...Bottas was a late signing and i wonder how much of his shortcomings were down to not being as well prepared for 2017 as he could have been, years at Williams would have led him to underestimate what is required of a top tier driver, what it takes to be and stay competitive over the course of a whole season?
i think there's probably something to this, but only as a direct comparison to rosberg, who worked very hard to make sure he knew the team and car inside out. that's a process that takes longer than a few months.
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Old 13 Nov 2017, 19:40 (Ref:3780252)   #157
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to add a thought to that...Bottas was a late signing and i wonder how much of his shortcomings were down to not being as well prepared for 2017 as he could have been, years at Williams would have led him to underestimate what is required of a top tier driver, what it takes to be and stay competitive over the course of a whole season?

i suppose one could say that a season is long enough to get up to speed but i think that also diminishes just how high the bar was set by NR and LH and just how relentless the pressure/pace he had to contend with over this season.

2018 will be the real test, although the one year extension may indicate that he will only have part of 2018 (maybe up until the summer break) to prove he can take the next step.
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i think there's probably something to this, but only as a direct comparison to rosberg, who worked very hard to make sure he knew the team and car inside out. that's a process that takes longer than a few months.
Being signed late can't have helped, although he was relatively stronger earlier in the year when a couple of times he just straight beat Hamilton. That doesn't mean it wasn't something that didn't effect the whole year. Maybe, being new to the team, he found it harder to adapt to developments, or to drive those developments to his advantage? It's hard to tell.

2018 will allow him to adapt more. Let's see.

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Vettel was pretty aggressive into T1... if Bottas hadn't jinked his steering a tad to the right they would have collided.

Vettel's desperate driving again?
For me Vettel was spot on at the start. The perfect level of aggression. Any less than that and we'd never see any overtaking.
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Old 13 Nov 2017, 19:54 (Ref:3780256)   #158
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Bottas is a decent peddler and I think you make a good point chillibowl. Next season will be the acid test, but this does underline how impressive Nico Rosberg really was. I sense he is forgotten already.
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Old 13 Nov 2017, 21:19 (Ref:3780291)   #159
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I sense he is forgotten already.

That's actually very true. How things change in 12 months.
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Old 14 Nov 2017, 16:41 (Ref:3780407)   #160
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Bottas is a nice guy but destined to follow the path of Kovalainen.

He should have forced Vettel wide at the first corner, gone in too fast if necessary and used the Ferrari as a brake.

He's just not a naturally aggressive guy.You can't teach that, it's either part of your personality or it isn't.
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Old 14 Nov 2017, 17:52 (Ref:3780422)   #161
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I think he could have covered the inside line quicker. Perhaps he felt he would be got on the outside and felt he at least stood a chance on the outside, as he would be on the inside exiting the Senna 'S', but in the end it wasn't enough.
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Old 14 Nov 2017, 18:53 (Ref:3780435)   #162
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Graz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGraz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGraz should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Bottas needs to step up next year. He's not justifying his selection just now. Comparison above to Kovalainen is a good shout.

Bear in mind he only got the gig because it was the best option available to Merc. He's doing no better really than Kimi is as the Ferrari #2 and he gets roundly criticised.

In Brazil, the top 4 finished within a few seconds of each other. Vettel was pacing to Bottas and could have gone quicker but didn't need to. Where Hamilton came from, he must have put 30+ seconds into Bottas.

It also shows how good Rosberg was in comparison.

If Bottas is the real deal, he should be able to up his game next year.
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Old 14 Nov 2017, 19:19 (Ref:3780440)   #163
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The other way of looking at it is, Mercedes won both titles this year, and had minimal drama between its drivers. Some in Mercedes may see that as doing the perfect job.
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Old 14 Nov 2017, 19:27 (Ref:3780443)   #164
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Bottas needs to step up next year. He's not justifying his selection just now. Comparison above to Kovalainen is a good shout.

Bear in mind he only got the gig because it was the best option available to Merc. He's doing no better really than Kimi is as the Ferrari #2 and he gets roundly criticised.

In Brazil, the top 4 finished within a few seconds of each other. Vettel was pacing to Bottas and could have gone quicker but didn't need to. Where Hamilton came from, he must have put 30+ seconds into Bottas.

It also shows how good Rosberg was in comparison.

If Bottas is the real deal, he should be able to up his game next year.
He's won races, which kimi hasn't. He was in the championship hunt first half of year, which Kimi wasn't. Hamilton also benefited from safety car to gain ground as well as having an optimally set up car to conditions. Rosberg had years with the team, helping to develop the car with his inputs. Bottas has had a short off-season with a car not developed to him and updated likely to the other driver's liking above his.

But don't get me wrong, rosberg was really good and prob better than he was given credit for.
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Old 14 Nov 2017, 22:39 (Ref:3780486)   #165
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Skam85 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
To be fair on Kimi, the only thing that prevented him winning the same amount of races as Bottas (in Monaco & Hungary), was his team.
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