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Old 5 Nov 2017, 23:02 (Ref:3778902)   #1
Langers
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Langers should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
V8 Supercars Holdings Pty Ltd v Sanpoint Pty Ltd [2017] NSWSC 104

https://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/decision/598a5277e4b074a7c6e17a6d


A lengthy but very much worthwhile read. I wonder why Speedcafe hasn't commented on the judgment?
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Old 5 Nov 2017, 23:44 (Ref:3778907)   #2
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peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
so in conlusion. there is no change and everything stats the same

so interesting discussion on how much better the new foxtel deal is for the teams.

Can easily see why Speedcafe would not be vaguely interested in it
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Old 6 Nov 2017, 01:15 (Ref:3778917)   #3
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Not hard to see why those dealing with Mr Dumbrell's case, described the REC situation as amateur at best.
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Old 6 Nov 2017, 02:33 (Ref:3778926)   #4
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So... from the legal document attached above...

...when the legal entity housing the series restructured in 2011, to sell off part of the ownership position to Archer et al, the holder of each REC received $3,523,958.58 per REC.

...when the CotF deal was signed in 2012(?), the holder of each REC received a sign on fee of $1,100,000 per REC.

...and REC income for abiding by the signed REC agreement, for participating in each race as required saw the holder of each REC receive income of $196,491.23 (2011), $240,701.75 (2012) and $95,438.60 (2013) per REC.... and a projection of REC income for 2014 of $208,116 per REC.

It is clear in those REC income values that the annual tyre cost (~$110,000 pa) is excluded there, as Dunlop apparently has first call on REC income to assure they are paid. The tyre cost is approximate as while teams have an assigned maximum number of dry tyres available, wets are at additional cost.

Interesting...
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Old 6 Nov 2017, 02:38 (Ref:3778928)   #5
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Just Do It! should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJust Do It! should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJust Do It! should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
And haven't a lot of wets been chewed through in the last 4 rounds. That must be some sort of record that probably only Aaron Noonan could inform us as to when it last happened?
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Old 6 Nov 2017, 02:50 (Ref:3778930)   #6
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It really makes you wonder why anyone would bother.

Potential ROI is questionable to non-existant.
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Old 6 Nov 2017, 04:48 (Ref:3778940)   #7
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Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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It really makes you wonder why anyone would bother.

Potential ROI is questionable to non-existant.
Race teams aren't always there for ROI alone of course but in most cases you'd hope that the books at least run in the black.

Teams of course have other sources of income beyond the REC amounts, that's where the real ROI is generated (or not).
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Old 6 Nov 2017, 06:10 (Ref:3778944)   #8
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so in conlusion. there is no change and everything stats the same

so interesting discussion on how much better the new foxtel deal is for the teams.

Can easily see why Speedcafe would not be vaguely interested in it
Speedcafe had the story on this back in October 2014
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Old 6 Nov 2017, 07:52 (Ref:3778953)   #9
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My favorite parts of the evidence:

4 people who accessed the VDR weren't in there for very long - not really serious? Including Steven Grove - I wasn't aware of any noise of him sniffing around Supercars

Archer chief saying his team is rubbish and the fact that he had no idea what was gonna on

Roland's description of a 'colourful' team owner and the damage they were doing to the category. Betty's certainly a lot less front and center now, which is a good thing

2 profitable RECs - T8 or one of the smaller teams running as a well funded customer?

The sheer volume of cars at risk for not making the grid in 2015. It could have been dire.

The amount of work and personal liability Brad and Roland are exposing themselves to by being on the board (even with director's insurance) in an unpaid position. A huge time commitment and a pivotal role representing the teams.

The official identification of AusGT as a threat, back in 2014 when it was just starting to grow.

Just how incredibly loose and unprofessional the wording of the REC is.

6 RECs being supported by wealthy benefactors. 3x Erebus, and the other three..?

Walkinshaw's statement that 2015 would be his last year, as he's having to tip in 2mm from HSV and is still running WR at a 2mm loss. Perhaps this is another 2 of the 6 referred to above, with Ryan and Martine chipping in from family funds.

There were many other highlights. It is a great insight into the commercial side of the business, and it's a shame we do to see more of it and some intelligent discussion on these matters rather than the nonsense comments on Supercars.com which unfortunately now seem to have migrated to Speedcafe as well.

Last edited by Langers; 6 Nov 2017 at 08:02.
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Old 6 Nov 2017, 09:15 (Ref:3778967)   #10
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The sheer volume of cars at risk for not making the grid in 2015. It could have been dire.
No where near as dire as things looked for the series coming into the 1980 season though.

Did Supercars make any changes or identify the reasons for the cars at risk of not making the grid?

The usual reason pushed is that the TV money from FTA wasn't enough, so the Foxtel money plugged the hole and thus we had a 'full' 25 car grid for 2015 and beyond. But TV money the size of the 2015-2020 deal cannot be counted on as a certainty next time.

- Are the car build costs being addressed?
- Are the running costs being addressed?

The current aim seems to be just find more money to fund the ever increasing costs, rather than cutting the costs of building and running the cars and using the extra money being drawn in for other means.
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Old 6 Nov 2017, 09:20 (Ref:3778970)   #11
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https://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/decision/598a5277e4b074a7c6e17a6d


A lengthy but very much worthwhile read. I wonder why Speedcafe hasn't commented on the judgment?
Why couldn’t you set it up so easy to access just by clicking?
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Old 6 Nov 2017, 09:21 (Ref:3778971)   #12
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Why couldn’t you set it up so easy to access just by clicking?
Didn't work on my mobile
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Old 6 Nov 2017, 09:22 (Ref:3778972)   #13
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I'll do it.

https://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/decis...b074a7c6e17a6d
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Old 6 Nov 2017, 09:44 (Ref:3778976)   #14
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The immutable facts seem to be, although not specifically outlined, are despite the warnings from Mr Miles, Mr Dane, Mr Nash et al, nobody since Sanpoint/FFF, LDI/LDM, Bellmont/TDR have handed back their RECs, no teams have collapsed, every car shows up at every round of the series since CotF.

Similarly, the only purchase/resale of a REC seems to be around the SuperBlack one, its purchase, and subsequent resale to 888/Team Vortex... which wasn’t mentioned here for some reason.

There were clearly no buyers for the 3 RECs handed back, although it now seems the LDM RECs are each on the move to different ownership structures/owners. The price of these would be interesting to know if/when it is approved.

None of the blurb about the machinations of control by Archer, the executive of Supercar, nor the activities of the teams’ representatives show anyone in good light. Governance is always about being absolutely transparent about everything you do, and some of those notes seemed to be attempting to manoeuvre a arguably recalcitrant majority owner and Supercar executives into action. And its not what you would have expected either.

Quite how Sanpoint/FFF got access to all these private emails between everyone, including the boss of Archer, would he interesting to understand.

The series is crying out for a Concorde Agreement, where key areas related to administrative rules, including number of events, guaranteed annual/monthly income for teams close to the cost of reasonable operation, some clarity around express and implied authority as well..

It got clunked into the claim for being unable to sell the 3 surrendered RECs but is a different problem to solve.

Best possibiity would see teams keeping their RECs, being given say $1.5m per annum in REC income, and every other dollar Archer can make is theirs. Put the pressure back on the entrepreneur with the capital. Even if they are looking for an exit sometime soon.

Clearly from what has been shared here, there is still value to be unlocked from better relationship and ownership structure/income assignment with the teams...
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Old 6 Nov 2017, 09:45 (Ref:3778977)   #15
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Didn't work on my mobile
Thank you for sharing your find Langers. Awesome read.
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